You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Really, let's think about it. One decides to go into a country, enter illegally of overstay their visa, then demands to be given permanent residence. I am not talking about the children brought here against their will, so don't bring this into the argument please. Do you guys really think it's OK to just give our parents permanent residency?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

If you view what they've done as a crime through the lense of legality, then at what point is the debt for crime paid for? Does the punishment fit the crime? Is being jailed, stripped of property, and barred from ever coming back to that country a fair punishment for crossing a demarcated line?

If you view their actions as being immoral, what atonement or punishment should be handed to them? On the flip side, aren't they victims themselves trying to escape poverty and hunger?

Once Rep. Steve King labels his Jesus as an illegal immigrant, which he was, then I'll jump on board.



PS: Do we need to protect our borders and restrict illegal entry? Absolutely. Seal the border shut. But if you fail - because of your apathy or double standard (ask them to come work for cheap while saying get out) then there is some blame on the part of the U.S. government. Because the illegals and the government are both responsible, there needs to be some process for legalization for people already here.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

They came here for a better life and this was the only option available at that time.

Also, this is not a crime by any Federal not State law.

You do know that that there are Lottery winners every year right?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

You sound stupid. Our parents came here with the intention of finding a better future, not to break the law. Immigration laws are unfair. Why should anyone unfairly wait DECADES for a green card? It shouldn't take that long to process applications, and yet, it takes forever. People are desperate and will do whatever it takes to get ahead in this world. It's just sad that the broken immigration system has to victimize both Americans and immigrants alike.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

You, indeed sound stupid. Same argument other people have when it comes to DREAMers "they might ntot have come here voluntarily, but they had a choice to either leave or stay. Why should we reward those choices?" If you think about it, it comes down to the same question oponents and you are asking "why should we give them a legal status even if they are young or old?"

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Skamm

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

I never understood this backlog especially with the fast computing technology we have.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

cause everything is still done in paper and not digitally. this is part of the reform that Barry wants.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

My impression is that the public stopped viewing the undocumented immigration issue as an economic one and started looking at it as a security and criminal justice issue, in view of cartel violence in Mexico. People also feel threatened by the state of the economy and when you add to that the "cheap labor force pool from a country in shambles" picture, then negative sentiment towards illegals becomes much easier to be understood.
Without any intention to promote his talk (shout) show, I was watching O'Reilly tonight how he was ranting first about how illegals deserve to be deported, then about big government spending and huge deficit, stating that each U.S. citizen now owes $40k+ of national debt (amount of national debt divided by number of US citizens)... well, DREAMers and other undocumented aren't citizens, but if you make them that will be less national debt per person in America today. Simple division operation.:razz:
The argument against clemency for illegals the way eddy presented it would make sense for a nation in Europe, especially Eastern Europe where nations were formed not by steady influx of population from outside of their borders but from groups of people already living on those teritories for generations. America was formed by immigrants and for immigrants and vitaly depends on that steady influx.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Right, part of CIR. We are behind in Immigration technology. This also means we do not have enough employees out there to do the paperwork?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Germany,France, Britain, Egypt etc have all been around for thousands of years so those lines will still be there in 1000 year in the US just like they will be in Mexico. There have been wars to secure those lines people never go back on wars they have won look at Isreal and the 7 day war they will never give back any land they perceived as being won in the war.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

this is a Michelle Malkin-esque thread.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Any Dreamer should want push for all pieced meal immigration legislation from E Verify , Border security, no chain migration etc because these are the issues that would put the voters mind at ease enough to vote for an immigration reform law. But in fact this all needs to go to the courts.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Im with you, Im strongly against the CIR... all I can say is F the CIR

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

How can you be against CIR when it could benefit your parents? The same people who risked their lives and worked hard for you? Wow. If you can't stand up for other people who are just like you, no one will stand up for you.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

actually they hired a lot more.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Djekm

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Yeah man I know you mean people come over here in violation of immigration law and then people want a law made up to make them legal. It's fucked up cuz in mexico (where I am from) they bring in illegals from central american to work in the plantations in SOUTHERN MEXICO. Mexico's economy is ranked 12th...part of the G20, but people are greedy and want more $$$. There are jobs in mexico but people don't want to do them for the wage that is paid there. Just like "Americans" don't want to do some of the jobs here for the wages that are paid here due to the abundance of labor. Most of the people I know don't give a damn about being USC, they just want some papers to be able to work. maybe they should give work permits.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

ITA.....

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

I am not talking about the children brought here against their will, YOU WERE BROUGHT HERE AGAINST YOUR WILL as a child BUT NOW THAT YOU ARE OLDER, THERE IS NO ONE STOPPING YOU, why don't you lead by example and leave? so don't bring this into the argument please. Do you guys really think it's OK to just give our parents permanent residency?

I guess this is just another way to blame the other undocumented for dream not passing. One of the biggest issues riding us right now is the sense of entitlement some dreamers have. America is tired of hearing the same sappy stories about how much we are victims stuck here and can't go home. Their response to us is-- since we are supposedly such innocent, good and righteous kids, Why is it that most of us are now adults and we we still won't do the right thing? why wont we just go home? some of you don't get that in light of everything people in general don't really give a f*ck about how we got here, who hopped fences vs who came in with visas and what not. All they see is a bunch of whining kids who feel the american public should be responsible for their parents bad judgement. The legal system does care however because overstayers are able to adjust by marriage while those who EWI are not. Obviousely they think a little more highly of those who came in on visas or came in legally right?. How about we just root for kicking out all the EWI and their kids because they never even made and effort to get visas in the first place? do you see how stupid that sounds? we are all undocumented , no matter how we got here. Please get off the soapboxes and stop pointing fingers because u cant get ahead and leave the rest behind. You would not even know what the united states look like if it wasn't for parents so why do u think you deserve to be here more than they do. I just cant stop *SMDH* at some of these threads and comments!

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

So you are in belief that in a 1000 years we will all be under one government one rule theory. I have read about this but do you really think countries will give up there power. I mean in the last 1000 years the only countries to give up territory are Britain and France and well they owned the world at one time so yes there was line changes but they were changed due to monetary reasons Britain and France could not afford to maintain all the places they owned. I think along with the EU and misgiving countries are now more frantic than ever to keep there sovereign countries more than every. Can you see Germany ,Venezuela, Iran , US, Mexico etc giving up territory?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Which describes you.

What's the difference between you and CIRer? Age. That's all.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Dreamers against CIR are nothing more than self-entitled hypocrites, simple as that.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Usslii

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

How would come to that idea? Dreamers are one segment of the immigration issue. Dreamers want citizenship which we know there not going to get until the country see's security on the border, controlled immigration, no chain migration, E verify to protect Americans jobs. So if you are a Dreamer and your main desire is to be able to get citizenship and live your life as American how does any of these actions that you no are going to have to happen affect you? And without the other issue how do you think 70% of the country that wants all illegals out of hear period will give an inch and stop fearing illegals enough relief to vote for it or have there representation vote for the Dream act. Know one wins everything in any negotiation but with out going to the court what are dreamers going to sacrifice to get something passed? These are the question that everyone that supports the cause are going to have to ask themselves what are we going to sacrifice to get this done. Just like Americans are going to ask themselves what are we going to sacrifice to give a small group of illegal immigrants citizenship.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Work visas are part of CIR afaik.

Guest Worker Program would stimulate the economy, save our agriculture industry, lower food prices.

But Republicans are waiting for someone to build transformer robots to secure the border first.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

True, but guest worker program will also increase unemployment rate.

The food prices will not decrease. Why? Simply, our people, who have been working at farms will receive minimum wage or even more, which cause the company to increase prices in order to make profit.

The only way the guest worker program will stimulate the economy, only if they can find jobs and actually pay for taxes, otherwise it will not stimulate our economy.

How would the guest worker program save our agriculture industry?

LOL.. transformer robots

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

+1

Eddy, now I know you are a troll. :wink:

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Co__________sign

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

We currently have quest work programs in farming communities in California and Florida every year for several years. They work there for the season then go home.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

The wages offered to the undocumented farm workers are higher than minimum wage, I believe (not 100% sure, need to research this). The reasons Americans are not taking the jobs is not because of low pay, it's because of the working conditions.

By that understanding, hiring legal guest workers won't lead to higher wages than are already being paid.

But when you consider the number of new farms that will come up, and the number of abandoned farms that will enter into use by expanding the guest worker program, food production in the USA will increase for sure, and that increase in supply will lead to lower prices.

add to this:

-The increased farm production will stimulate the economy.
-The increased presence of guest workers with money to spend will also stimulate the economy.
-The increased revenue for farms will result in greater tax revenue.
-The taxation of guest workers will result in further increases in tax revenue.

But this is just speculation, I don't know for sure.

Yes, I know, I've heard of that. But it works on such a small and restrictive scale, that not many farmers can make use of it.

While some farmers can and do take advantage, I heard (from Colbert's congress testimony, mind you), that there are 1 million acres of abandoned farmland, because there is nobody to work on them. This proves that the guest worker program is not being used to its full extent.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

You also need to read up on why that farm land on the California Mexican border is abandoned. Because American farmers bought up all the land on the Mexican side and grow there crops there paying the mexican half of what they were paying while they were working on American side. Plus on the Mexican side they dont have to worry about all the Water rationing coming out of the colorado river that is put on them by the EPA here in the US. These farming hand are going to get screwed almost every time unless the work nearly 8 months in Florida for 5 or6 bucks an hour then take it all home to there families in Mexico were $ 1=11 pesos.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

I don't understand how it's hypocritical. DREAM Act is far different from CIR. The goal of the dream act is not to make those who had no say in coming here a chance to stay.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Dream Act is more like a civil rights/humanatarian bill.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Eh, for most yes. But for those from Canada...eh...I just don't know what to say.

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

If they are from Canada then whats wrong with living life in Canada?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Alwmwmm

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Which Canadian city has the warmest weather throughout the year?

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

Wkwkwmwm

Re: You know, I think I am against CIR
 

So you do have options for good weather.