A U.S. Citizen Trying to Understand Your Fight
 

Hello,

I was doing some research about education then I came across an article about the Dream Act. I had heard of it on the TV news, and even came across an education RSS feed on Google, which is how I found this site.

I was born a U.S. citizen, as were my parents. I live in New York; I’m in my mid-30s, married and working on my American dream. I won’t insult you and tell you that I understand your fight.

I came to this site because I was curious, curious to know what you all had to say. Sure, I got the media’s angle, but I know that the facts aren’t always there. And I’ll be honest; my first thought of undocumented workers trying to gain documented status through “illegal” means was not a pleasant one. However, I have read many of the posts here at this site and I have softened up. One point was made in a post that the Dream Act benefits those who came here against their will or had no choice in the matter as children. Their parents came to the United States illegally, not them. I agree. No child should be punished for what their parents have done.

In my opinion, the media’s portrayal of the Dream Act is doing a disservice. There has to be a better way to sell it to the American people. The way it’s packaged now provides no obvious benefits to U.S. citizens: “Why should the American people care about what your needs are?” Sometimes, people can be selfish and only think about themselves and their families, not about you and yours. America is a capitalist country and perhaps if this act showed more of how everyone gains, it would be more successful. For example: If many undocumented residents could become documented residents, they would relieve some of the federal and state tax burdens; social services, like hospital emergency rooms, would be relieved, which in turn may lower health-related costs; social security would no longer be at risk (as it is now). These are just some of the benefits that I see (and as a tax payer, would be glad to have someone else contribute to!).

At the same time, with going forward with this bill, what are the guarantees to American citizens? How can this bill assure the American people that they will get a return on their investment? In other words, what’s to stop you from going back to the country that your parents left? What’s to happen to the new undocumented workers after the bill is passed? Does it include everyone from here on out, from all over the world, forever? If not forever, then for how long? What happens to the undocumented parents? As a potential investor, I believe in evaluating the benefits as well as the risks. I expect some risks with any investment, but minimizing risks is always a better way to go.

I hope that I didn’t offend anyone. I am trying to gather information to form an opinion and vote the right person into office who will reflect my ideals.

Thank you for reading and I would appreciate your comments. :)

Re: A U.S. Citizen Trying to Understand Your Fight
 

At the same time, with going forward with this bill, what are the guarantees to American citizens?
Americans can be guaranteed that the illegals won't get any more benefits than the average citizens. We're not getting federal aid for school if Dream passes, just legalization.

How can this bill assure the American people that they will get a return on their investment? In other words, what’s to stop you from going back to the country that your parents left?
Many of us consider ourselves Americans. This is our home and English is our primary language. We're not going to go back to our home countries. If we really wanted to do that, we would've self-deported ourselves a long time ago. Many people want to stay and work here. It's our home! Personally, I really really DO NOT want to go back to my home country. I will only go back if the government refuses to legalize me after I've completed my education.

What’s to happen to the new undocumented workers after the bill is passed?
I don't understand this question, so I don't have the answer for it.

Does it include everyone from here on out, from all over the world, forever? If not forever, then for how long?
I know that the age cap is 30 years old and that we have to prove that we entered here before the age of 15.

What happens to the undocumented parents?
We don't what will happen to undocumented parents. Dream is only for the kids so the parents get nothing at this point. Comprehensive Immigration Reform, however, will provide solutions to that problem.

Thank you for trying to understand. We really need help from Americans like you. There are a lot of people out there who are out there to crush our dreams, and they're all grown-up adults. Some of us are young people who are just trying to make their futures better.

Re: A U.S. Citizen Trying to Understand Your Fight
 

Thank you for your response and I'm sorry for the confusion. Let me try to clarify.

What I meant was, say a Russian family comes to the United States, five years after the Dream Act goes into effect (hypothetically speaking), and overstay their visas. They have two children: one is nine years old and another is 12 years old. Would the Dream Act apply to these children too? I guess what I'm getting at is, what if a family's intention is to take advantage of the situation.

Re: A U.S. Citizen Trying to Understand Your Fight
 

That's one the weaknesses of the bill, I think. It wasn't specific enough on those terms. They said nothing about how long it will go in effect.

The beneficiaries of the Dream Act must have been in the country for 5 years before the bill goes into law.^^^ It wouldn't apply to them.

Re: A U.S. Citizen Trying to Understand Your Fight
 

The first requirements of the act are that you have to have entered the US before the age of 16 and have been here for at least 5 years. Anyone not meeting these requirements at the time of the bill's passage would not benefit from DREAM. This is absolutely non negotiable.

Pretty much everyone against us will dispute this, you don't have to believe me, check out the text of the bill, it's the very first section addressing basic requirements.

I'm very glad you chose to seek out answers to these questions. If you have any more please ask. I for one really believe that I don't have to advocate this bill as much as I have to advocate independent thought. This bill is in English, widely available, yet people still continue to propagate wide misconceptions about it. The vast majority of arguments against it aren't even relevant to it.

Here is proof:

Section 3 (a) (1) (A)

Welcome :D. On another note, it seems some of us dreamies need to do some more learning and research on what the dream act really is and who can benefit from it. :wink:

Thanks again for your responses.

I have to tell you, things are becoming clearer to me, but I have a few concerns. I can only imagine that if I were thinking about coming into the country through illegal means, I would do it now to qualify for such benefits under the Dream Act. Plus, as a compassionate person, I can’t help but think of all the others who would miss out on their dreams after you. Are they not entitled to have the same fighting chance to succeed as you do?

I live in New York City and it’s a very expensive place to live. I went to college and graduate school, which I paid for without loans or grants. However, I was fortunate enough to pay in-state tuition. But I did have friends who had to drop out because they didn’t have the money to do so (they were just above the financial requirements to receive grants). This really has nothing to do with the Act, but simply demonstrates that they should have a fighting chance to succeed as well.

As a businesswoman, I do realize that if you put too many people on a tugboat, we all drown, so restrictions have to be set to ensure the quality of life for all citizens. I don’t have a solution, but I think some sort of solution should be talked about on a practical level.

Well, coming now would do nothing for you since you wouldn't meet the residency requirement at this point.

I agree that others should also get a chance to prove themselves but much of the issue with DREAMers stems from the issue of our non involvement in the decision to come here. As kids we had no say in what our parents wanted to do. Granted, for many it worked out for the best, but for many it did not and they find themselves in the present situation.

I understand your concerns about costs for citizens, I really do. The thing is that this bill REALLY will not cost anyone anything. Because you are a businesswoman I don't need to tell you of tax benefits of educating people and all that, you obviously know that very well. There is a thread in The Lounge of this forum that cites numbers from different sources as to just how big the economic benefits will be. So again you don't have to take my word for it.

As a conservative I don't like to give anyone anything. This bill doesn't entitle us to ANY kind of government aid. We can only get loans (which, though obviously great, are not really "aid"). I also don't think that citizens should incur costs on behalf of illegals. But they do exactly because people are illegal. Because the costs are high and benefits non existent for illegal people. By legalizing high return individuals covered by DREAM we can cut the costs of having them here and gain the benefit of their tax contributions. I am an economist, I'd LOVE a discussion on this with anyone opposed to the DREAM.

Here's the thing Marian:

I also live in New York. I grew up here. I love this city and this country. While I was legal I was recruited by a Wall St. firm where I worked for a few years. I only became illegal because my lawyer was a crook and there's nothing I can do about that. I started work one week after my High School graduation and paid my tuition from that money. I legally opened a brokerage account and paid taxes on my capital gains at the highest tax level. I've paid taxes every year and NEVER got aid from anybody with the exception of the in-state tuition rate in college (this subsidy has since been paid back through my taxes). Nobody can say I had it easy but I STILL love being here.

If you got to know some of us we're all, dare I say, incredible people. We're not looking for amnesty because we don't enjoy getting things easily.

The worst thing about all this is that my faith in this country has been tested. How can people be forgetting EVERYTHING this country stands for? How is it that I can quote Jefferson and Washington and be told by the opposition that they were wrong? How can this country turn its back on people who through no fault of their own found themselves in a situation where they have to prove their worth, and are willing 110% to do that.


How can freedom and justice and hope lose meaning?

Wow, so many responses and I appreciate that. I also appreciate the fact that no one has been rude to me, thanks. I am simply a concerned citizen trying to understand how this should play out. I will tell you, I am not a politician, but with my vote, and others like me, I can exercise my choices through the voter’s polls.

I’m trying to look at the big picture as well. What are the potential side effects? As many of you know the history of this country, politicians don’t always make the best decisions. And what I mean by that is, sometimes they make decisions without thinking two steps ahead.

With that in mind, I guess the goal is to seek a solution to a perceived problem: What to do with undocumented residents. The question for me is, do we want a temporary solution or do we want to solve a problem? With a temporary solution, immediately, the Dream Act would suit the bill for some. A fix to an ongoing problem, the Dream Act doesn’t resolve issues with ongoing, undocumented persons. The problem still exists under the Dream Act. At the same time, do we punish children for their parent’s wrongdoings? Comments?

Just to get your thoughts, what if an opponent of the Dream Act stated that perhaps it’s not a bad idea to take one’s education and return to a “home” country to uplift and secure a future there? Logically speaking, if all educated and skilled workers left any country, that country would be destined to fail. I’d like to get your thoughts.

Thanks again for your patience and hospitality. I wish you all the best. :)