Democrats should stop negotiating with Republicans over Dreamers. (Opinion) - Page 4

You all forget that when this all started it was a good faith agreement on legalizing Dreamers and basic border package. Absolutely no wall but somehow we are in the discussion of 4 pillars which gives him 25B for his border wall. Trump has destroyed every progress of a compromise by throwing in more and more demands each time. At this point, the best negotiation is to stonewall your opponent. I do this all the time with all my business deals. They will reach out to you when you give them a hard no. It will come down to if Trump wants the wall or Dem wants to legalize dreamers more. Trump will need the wall for his 2020 campaign. It will be a huge win for him and his base.

This has been the republican strategy for years now. Every time democrats take a step towards the middle republicans take two to the right.

Right now we have the fascist party and the conservative party, with a minor center, and basically no left.

I'll let you figure out which is which.


Only way forward is for democrats to bring the legislature to a screeching halt and then start breaking any and all agreements. Republicans need 9 votes, this is what we want. (shit gets added to the bill) actually we also want this, this, that, and this. White house will veto it, explain how that's our problem? This doesn't mean shutdown the government, but any bill that requires 60 votes is going absolutely nowhere.

Think about what happened with ACA. Republicans had their shopping list that diluted the bill in promise of supporting it. They'd get the amendments in and then vote against the bill. Fun amendments for example included the individual mandate including criminal penalties and not just a fine collected through the IRS.

A whole lot of republican garbage was thrown out later by the reconciliation act which amended the first senate passed ACA.

i really dislike having to lecture so many of you;
the original discussions were for DACAers(the 800k or so people covered) to get conditional green cards in exchange for border security/diversity lottery reforms.
broader talks were also being discussed and were to be done as a second phase(stuff like more dreamers covered, diversity lottery being ended, cuts to legal immigration).
then things went to shit because of dems wanting tps to be lumped in, THEN they went to BIGGER SHIT because of one comment made out of context, that dems wanted to take advantage of.

lecture us? wtf. do you have PhD? are you a professor?

I usually fall asleep during lectures. Please list your qualification first. I like to evaluate if you're worth listening to.

Hell no. You are projecting where you thought discussions were going but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There was never a decision to give green cards to DACAers for border security/diversity lottery. Anything before January was just fluff/theater. The negotiations started off with these four unrealistic pillars (remember the White House statement the day of that open door meeting). The shithole stuff had nothing to do with the extra stuff lumped in. The only reason Trump said the stuff that he said that sounded kind of on our side is because he is a FUCKING MORON who had no idea what was going on when he said it.

Here's a reality check for everyone on here (especially you): The DACA issue failed because Trump and the Republicans (especially his base Republicans) wanted it to fail. They are evil, racist and truly terrible ugly human beings. Period. The Democrats could've forced their hand, and indeed some wanted to, but they all caved because they are conservative corporatist cucks. The fact that they opened the government shows where their true loyalties lie (and no it isn't with their American citizen voters).

may as well be with all the delusional people here.

"you are wrong because i say so"
"negotiations didn't start until i think they did"
sure thing, buddy. whenever your posts are this long and can be deduced as something so uniformed and ignorant, you need to rethink your positions on things.
republicans have a set number of things they want to get done, they can not do these things without giving something in return.
as much as some of you want to whine and scream at your computer screens that citizenship should be given to you automatically because you're more american than the near 1 million people that the US hands out GC's to a year, sadly, that's not how this country works. deals and negotiations have to be made in order to get things done, except in a super majority where you can do whatever the fuck you want.
so naturally, a reasonable person, would come to the conclusion that concessions have to be made on both sides.
and guess which party is the side that has more levarage??

So says the guy that wants US citizens to trade their rights of family reunification for 1.8 million DREAMERS..

i never said that.
try again.