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11-12-2007, 08:46 AM
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12:01 AM CST on Monday, November 12, 2007
By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]
WEBSTER GROVES, Mo. On the porch of an 85-year-old fixer-upper, Chris Mund is mulling a carpentry problem with his childhood buddy, Nick Gartelos. They're stuck and frustrated. But when the conversation turns to presidential politics and illegal immigration, the exasperation really pours out.
They worry about porous borders, but GOP candidates' fervor against illegal immigration doesn't resonate with them. Nor does the Democrats' relative silence on the issue.
"America needs the labor. And both parties know that. You're not going to pick lettuce," Mr. Mund tells his pal. "
I just think we don't have the willpower," said Mr. Gartelos, who's working on his master's degree in physics and helping with the renovation.
"I've never heard either one of these two parties throw up their hands and say things are impossible so much. 'It's impossible to stop immigration. ... Oh my God, we're just outsmarted by these peasant Mexicans running over our borders?' I mean ... it's insane."
The friends grew up here in Webster Groves, a swing town in a swing state with a rich history of picking presidential winners.
Stop and chat in this tree-lined St. Louis suburb with any pair of voters friends, spouses, co-workers and it's a good bet they backed opposing candidates last time. It's just as likely they're concerned about illegal immigration and fuzzy on what exactly the Democrats would do about it.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton fed that impression when she fumbled a recent debate question about New York's plan to offer driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, saying, in essence: That's a good idea, but she wouldn't explicitly endorse it.
GOP candidates rail easily against porous borders and illegal immigration, a message demanded by an angry and motivated segment of that party. Why such contortions from the Democratic front-runner? Is it just her, swing voters wonder or is her party wobbly on an issue on which Republicans offer such passion and certitude?
Political goulash
It's a brisk afternoon in Webster Groves. Most of the 23,000 residents are white, but the mix of professional and blue-collar workers makes for a political goulash.
The Keefers are power-walking to lunch at St. Louis Bread Co. He's 75, a recently retired shoe store owner. She's 70 and spent her career as an educator. They consider themselves Republicans, and they're solidly uncommitted in the presidential race.
"We just don't have any idea. We're really upset with Bush. We both voted for him. We really screwed that up," Lee Keefer said.
"I think Hillary will win," said his wife, Suzanne. "I like Edwards. I like Romney. ... Is that weird?"
About 3 percent of Missouri residents are foreign-born, and studies show that perhaps a third of those are in the country illegally a fraction of the numbers in Texas, Arizona and many other states, which helps explain why folks like the Keefers expect issues like war and health care to weigh more heavily when the state's primary rolls around in early February, and next November.
Mr. Keefer thinks the Republicans are a bit disingenuous by focusing on border security without trying to address labor demand and other aspects of the issue.
"How are you going to tighten the border build an $18 billion wall?" he said. "
Nobody has come up with a solution," she said.
The morning paper had a column lampooning Mrs. Clinton's bob-and-weave on immigration, and they share a laugh recounting it.
"I think she's shooting herself in the foot," Mrs. Keefer said. "She's trying to agree with everybody."
"She's trying to be elected," Mr. Keefer said.
A new 'third rail'?
The Democratic candidates all agree on a need for an immigration overhaul the failed package of beefed-up security, a guest-worker program, and a path to citizenship for most of the 12 million foreigners in this country without permission.
But it's hardly an issue they go out of their way to emphasize.
Surveys suggest independent voters, in particular, are growing more concerned about illegal immigration. While some cities have offered sanctuary of sorts, many cities and states are cracking down; in August, Missouri's governor, Republican Matt Blunt, ordered state police to check the immigration status of all arrestees, as well as similar checks for workers hired by state contractors.
Democrats have long been seen as more sympathetic to immigration. But lately, party strategists have been prodding candidates to confront the public's anxieties, despite the risk of alienating Hispanic voters.
House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel of Illinois recently called immigration the new "third rail" of American politics, borrowing the label usually reserved for Social Security.
"Look, this is a hard issue," said former Clinton aide Simon Rosenberg, head of NDN, a Democratic think tank, arguing that Republicans have fared even worse. "What you've seen in the last few years is the Republican Party's effort to inflame this issue without offering any concrete set of ideas for how to solve the problem. ... I think it's been a catastrophic strategy for their party."
Mixed reviews
Kim Wohlgemuth and Cathy Hanewinkel are heading into the St. Louis Bread Co. for lunch, too.
Co-workers at a nearby law office, their political loyalties are divided, though on immigration, they're both fed up.
"Hillary is not favored here, I can tell you that much. Nobody trusts her. She's not clear in what she proposes," said Ms. Wohlgemuth, a legal secretary who tends Republican but couldn't bring herself to support Mr. Bush in 2004. "If they're not supposed to be here, then they shouldn't be granted licenses, period."
But she added, "I don't think there's going to be ever an easy solution to all of this."
"It's just way out of control," agreed Ms. Hanewinkel, a paralegal who usually votes for Democrats. "I don't know what the answer is to sending them back. You can't stick them on a boat and drop them off."
Over at the town recreation center, a couple of self-styled independents give mixed reviews to the way immigration is playing out in the campaign.
Rob Leighton, 41, an athletics bag over his shoulder and a hockey stick in his hand, said he picked Mr. Bush in 2004 as the lesser of two evils. He's come to regret that vote, not that he's thrilled at the prospect of Mrs. Clinton and her plans for health care. But immigration? It's way overblown. "I'm not affected by it," he said. (take that clair fataskill)
Behind the counter, skating director Debbie Deimeke is more animated by the issue.
"Demographics change. I don't have a problem with that," she said, but the flood of illegal immigrants should be stopped. "It's a huge problem in this country. ... If every little government agency would do their job ..."
Back at Mr. Mund's house, the boom box is blaring music at the moment, though often enough it's talk radio. Rush Limbaugh, maybe, or one of the local liberal call-ins.
Mr. Mund, 40, has time for both, spending 60-hour weeks renovating the house, hoping to move in before winter. He lives two doors down with his wife, two kids and two dogs. They're running out of space, so he bought the 1922 house last summer and quit his 9-to-5 job as manager at a building supply wholesaler.
Immigration doesn't faze him as much as things like taxes and Iraq. So while he pays attention to the rhetoric, he said, he won't be swayed easily.
"Just take everything with a grain of salt. In fact, an iceberg-sized salt," he said.
WEBSTER GROVES, MO.
POPULATION (2005 ESTIMATE): 22,896
ETHNIC MAKEUP (2000 CENSUS): Non-Hispanic white, 90.1 percent; black, 6.4 percent; Hispanic, 1.3 percent; Asian, 1.2 percent
HOUSEHOLD INCOME:
$65,000
HISTORY:
Area first settled in the early 1800s; Webster Groves was formed by the merger of five St. Louis suburbs in 1896.
DID YOU KNOW?
The Thanksgiving Day football game between Webster Groves and nearby Kirkwood was first played in 1907 and is considered the oldest continuous high school football rivalry west of the Mississippi.
SOURCE: Dallas Morning News research
VOTERS' VIEWS ON IMMIGRATION
What's the most important issue in your choice for president? Iraq 29%
Economy/jobs 14%
Health care 13%
Immigration/illegal immigration 5% (Take that alicrap)
Terrorism/security 5%
Whom do you trust most on immigration issues?
Democrats 42%
Republicans 35%
Should state governments issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants?
Should 23%
Should not 76%
SOURCES: ABC News/Washington Post poll Oct. 29-Nov. 1; margin of error +/- 3 percentage points; CNN/Opinion Research Corp., Oct. 12-14; margin of error +/- 3 percentage points
By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]
WEBSTER GROVES, Mo. On the porch of an 85-year-old fixer-upper, Chris Mund is mulling a carpentry problem with his childhood buddy, Nick Gartelos. They're stuck and frustrated. But when the conversation turns to presidential politics and illegal immigration, the exasperation really pours out.
They worry about porous borders, but GOP candidates' fervor against illegal immigration doesn't resonate with them. Nor does the Democrats' relative silence on the issue.
"America needs the labor. And both parties know that. You're not going to pick lettuce," Mr. Mund tells his pal. "
I just think we don't have the willpower," said Mr. Gartelos, who's working on his master's degree in physics and helping with the renovation.
"I've never heard either one of these two parties throw up their hands and say things are impossible so much. 'It's impossible to stop immigration. ... Oh my God, we're just outsmarted by these peasant Mexicans running over our borders?' I mean ... it's insane."
The friends grew up here in Webster Groves, a swing town in a swing state with a rich history of picking presidential winners.
Stop and chat in this tree-lined St. Louis suburb with any pair of voters friends, spouses, co-workers and it's a good bet they backed opposing candidates last time. It's just as likely they're concerned about illegal immigration and fuzzy on what exactly the Democrats would do about it.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton fed that impression when she fumbled a recent debate question about New York's plan to offer driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, saying, in essence: That's a good idea, but she wouldn't explicitly endorse it.
GOP candidates rail easily against porous borders and illegal immigration, a message demanded by an angry and motivated segment of that party. Why such contortions from the Democratic front-runner? Is it just her, swing voters wonder or is her party wobbly on an issue on which Republicans offer such passion and certitude?
Political goulash
It's a brisk afternoon in Webster Groves. Most of the 23,000 residents are white, but the mix of professional and blue-collar workers makes for a political goulash.
The Keefers are power-walking to lunch at St. Louis Bread Co. He's 75, a recently retired shoe store owner. She's 70 and spent her career as an educator. They consider themselves Republicans, and they're solidly uncommitted in the presidential race.
"We just don't have any idea. We're really upset with Bush. We both voted for him. We really screwed that up," Lee Keefer said.
"I think Hillary will win," said his wife, Suzanne. "I like Edwards. I like Romney. ... Is that weird?"
About 3 percent of Missouri residents are foreign-born, and studies show that perhaps a third of those are in the country illegally a fraction of the numbers in Texas, Arizona and many other states, which helps explain why folks like the Keefers expect issues like war and health care to weigh more heavily when the state's primary rolls around in early February, and next November.
Mr. Keefer thinks the Republicans are a bit disingenuous by focusing on border security without trying to address labor demand and other aspects of the issue.
"How are you going to tighten the border build an $18 billion wall?" he said. "
Nobody has come up with a solution," she said.
The morning paper had a column lampooning Mrs. Clinton's bob-and-weave on immigration, and they share a laugh recounting it.
"I think she's shooting herself in the foot," Mrs. Keefer said. "She's trying to agree with everybody."
"She's trying to be elected," Mr. Keefer said.
A new 'third rail'?
The Democratic candidates all agree on a need for an immigration overhaul the failed package of beefed-up security, a guest-worker program, and a path to citizenship for most of the 12 million foreigners in this country without permission.
But it's hardly an issue they go out of their way to emphasize.
Surveys suggest independent voters, in particular, are growing more concerned about illegal immigration. While some cities have offered sanctuary of sorts, many cities and states are cracking down; in August, Missouri's governor, Republican Matt Blunt, ordered state police to check the immigration status of all arrestees, as well as similar checks for workers hired by state contractors.
Democrats have long been seen as more sympathetic to immigration. But lately, party strategists have been prodding candidates to confront the public's anxieties, despite the risk of alienating Hispanic voters.
House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel of Illinois recently called immigration the new "third rail" of American politics, borrowing the label usually reserved for Social Security.
"Look, this is a hard issue," said former Clinton aide Simon Rosenberg, head of NDN, a Democratic think tank, arguing that Republicans have fared even worse. "What you've seen in the last few years is the Republican Party's effort to inflame this issue without offering any concrete set of ideas for how to solve the problem. ... I think it's been a catastrophic strategy for their party."
Mixed reviews
Kim Wohlgemuth and Cathy Hanewinkel are heading into the St. Louis Bread Co. for lunch, too.
Co-workers at a nearby law office, their political loyalties are divided, though on immigration, they're both fed up.
"Hillary is not favored here, I can tell you that much. Nobody trusts her. She's not clear in what she proposes," said Ms. Wohlgemuth, a legal secretary who tends Republican but couldn't bring herself to support Mr. Bush in 2004. "If they're not supposed to be here, then they shouldn't be granted licenses, period."
But she added, "I don't think there's going to be ever an easy solution to all of this."
"It's just way out of control," agreed Ms. Hanewinkel, a paralegal who usually votes for Democrats. "I don't know what the answer is to sending them back. You can't stick them on a boat and drop them off."
Over at the town recreation center, a couple of self-styled independents give mixed reviews to the way immigration is playing out in the campaign.
Rob Leighton, 41, an athletics bag over his shoulder and a hockey stick in his hand, said he picked Mr. Bush in 2004 as the lesser of two evils. He's come to regret that vote, not that he's thrilled at the prospect of Mrs. Clinton and her plans for health care. But immigration? It's way overblown. "I'm not affected by it," he said. (take that clair fataskill)
Behind the counter, skating director Debbie Deimeke is more animated by the issue.
"Demographics change. I don't have a problem with that," she said, but the flood of illegal immigrants should be stopped. "It's a huge problem in this country. ... If every little government agency would do their job ..."
Back at Mr. Mund's house, the boom box is blaring music at the moment, though often enough it's talk radio. Rush Limbaugh, maybe, or one of the local liberal call-ins.
Mr. Mund, 40, has time for both, spending 60-hour weeks renovating the house, hoping to move in before winter. He lives two doors down with his wife, two kids and two dogs. They're running out of space, so he bought the 1922 house last summer and quit his 9-to-5 job as manager at a building supply wholesaler.
Immigration doesn't faze him as much as things like taxes and Iraq. So while he pays attention to the rhetoric, he said, he won't be swayed easily.
"Just take everything with a grain of salt. In fact, an iceberg-sized salt," he said.
WEBSTER GROVES, MO.
POPULATION (2005 ESTIMATE): 22,896
ETHNIC MAKEUP (2000 CENSUS): Non-Hispanic white, 90.1 percent; black, 6.4 percent; Hispanic, 1.3 percent; Asian, 1.2 percent
HOUSEHOLD INCOME:
$65,000
HISTORY:
Area first settled in the early 1800s; Webster Groves was formed by the merger of five St. Louis suburbs in 1896.
DID YOU KNOW?
The Thanksgiving Day football game between Webster Groves and nearby Kirkwood was first played in 1907 and is considered the oldest continuous high school football rivalry west of the Mississippi.
SOURCE: Dallas Morning News research
VOTERS' VIEWS ON IMMIGRATION
What's the most important issue in your choice for president? Iraq 29%
Economy/jobs 14%
Health care 13%
Immigration/illegal immigration 5% (Take that alicrap)
Terrorism/security 5%
Whom do you trust most on immigration issues?
Democrats 42%
Republicans 35%
Should state governments issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants?
Should 23%
Should not 76%
SOURCES: ABC News/Washington Post poll Oct. 29-Nov. 1; margin of error +/- 3 percentage points; CNN/Opinion Research Corp., Oct. 12-14; margin of error +/- 3 percentage points
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