Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

I never said they were bringing it up too soon. On the contrary, the problem is that they dragged their feet forever, and all we got from the Democrats was hollow lip service and vague assurances about how they want to do something about immigration reform. For a year and a half now. No bill, just talk about a "framework." Only talk, talk, talk. And Obama trying to emulate Bush II on enforcement. So you will have to forgive me if I find it hard to believe the Democrats have suddenly grown a pair when it comes to immigration.

As far as my suspicion goes, what I think is "suspicious" about this move is the suddenness of the timing and the constant waffling. Maybe I am wrong, but I fear Reid is playing politics to try to win Latino votes in Nevada without really worrying whether he succeeds or fails on this issue this year. It seemed for a moment like Reid was going to man up on immigration reform, but then he waffled as soon as Graham got his panties in a bunch about climate change--an issue that can only further reduce the Democrats' already-shrinking political capital.

I really believe Reid is committed to reform, but I also worry that he believes succeeding in bringing reform can wait until after the election. The problem is that if the Republicans get in the driving seat on this issue after the election, it simply will not pass in any humane way. Deportation will become a synonym for immigration reform. And it will be another ten years before anybody is ready to talk about it again.

As far as the 56 votes go, I will believe it when I see it. There were a whole lot of Democrats who voted against immigration the last time around, and I would be surprised if Reid could magically bring them along in an election year all of a sudden. From the comments I often see here, it is very easy to say you have enough votes to get immigration reform through. It is a lot harder to get actual votes in the Senate. HCR and financial reform are two obvious recent examples of this fact. Nevertheless, I really do hope I am wrong about that--for the obvious reason that all our undocumented asses are on the line till reform of some kind passes.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

You got to chill, everyone else has an opinion, it may not be the right one but they are entitled to it, you got to stop being all high and mighty. Let them voice it out without feeling like they are idiots for not knowing every single little thing that goes on in politics. So just take a chill pill.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

Have you been living under a rock?

President Obama has been in office for a year and four months. A year and 3 months were squandered getting around Republican obstructionism. And during the last month, they’ve been dealing with Financial Reform. When exactly did you expect them to bring Comprehensive Immigration Reform, during a parallel universe time frame that exists only in your head perhaps?

And you “suspect” that Harry Reid is bringing up immigration reform because he wants the Latino vote? No shit, Sherlock. Do you also “suspect” that Ricky Martin is gay? Because that would be a shocker.

It’s still unclear what exactly you want from Reid from your response. You say he “doesn’t really care whether he succeeds or fails.” Uhh, newsflash: he has 56 Democrats lined up and ready to go. In the words of VP Biden, that seems like a huge fucking deal if you ask me. Getting Republicans to stop being dicks is beyond his pay grade. Oh and the fact that you’re skeptical about him having those 56 votes is inconsequential really, particularly when you’re faced with the facts: For HCR, he delivered 60 votes out of 60; For Financial Reform, he delivered 58 out of 59. When he says he has 56 votes for CIR, you can bet your ass he has 56 votes.

As for Republicans “getting in the driving[sic] seat” after the elections —well, that only goes to show how little you know about politics.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

This from the guy who keeps making fun of DA User for being a total dipshit. Projecting is sooo last year.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

As far as I see it, its not "us and the Democrats" versus Republicans. Both parties delivered equally well on their promise of immigration reform; that is they've delivered nothing so far.

It's clear that Republicans are playing the dirties possible game right now, stalling any and all progress, because any further legislative success is going to go straight to the balls of the Republican party in November.

On the other hand, the 1986 immigration reform bill (ie. the original "amnesty") was signed by Pres. Reagan, the sweetheart of conservatives everywhere. And we had an actual vote for CIR and the DREAM Act in 2006 under Republican control.

It's all moot. I'm really getting at this:

Trusting either party to do the right thing is a grave mistake. Doing so is not how democracy works (angeleno, you're making calls, you know). We have to keep up the pressure, keep organizing, and hope for the best.

Cool it and stay focused on the numbers.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

No all i said to DA User was that it is not a win-win situation. No one can argue with you right? so i'll just leave it as is... PEACE

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

Oh, so now we're playing stupid. Jolly.

Re: Inside Democrats' Election-Year Immigration Push -- 'Either Way We Win'
 

^^^ Really?