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-   -   Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA! (http://dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?t=79432)

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 02:17 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swim19 (Post 656013)
@jaketapper
Jake Tapper Retweeted Jake Tapper
2/ Flake spokesman @Jason_Samuels tells me that the DACA commitment came directly from @VP Pence.

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...51436636737536

I don't know what to think. If there's a commitment then pass DA along tax bill together at the same time, not after.

Trump administration is well know for flaking out on everything, and a commitment from Pence doesn't mean much.

Let's see how the cards are played out by everyone.

JayR9 12-01-2017 02:18 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
lol assurance doesn't mean shit...need it in writing

libertarian1776 12-01-2017 02:18 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
so in theory for us who already qualify can cut the 10 year to 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demise (Post 656022)
Under the current text the maximum period of conditional permanent residency is 10 years. Initial grant of 5 years, and then an extension for 5 years if you need it. They give you a lot of time to get the requirements done.

There is no minimum time requirement to file for removal of conditions in this case, and as with any other removal of conditions your time as a CPR counts for naturalization purposes. So for those of us who already qualify the process would look like this.

Apply for conditional permanent residency -> (wait however long to be approved, get an EAD in the meantime) -> Get conditional Green Card valid for 5 years -> File for removal of conditions right off the bat -> (wait however long it takes them to approve that) -> (5 years (or 3 if you're married to a USC) from your Resident Since Date - 90 days) - file N-400 for naturalization.


Demise 12-01-2017 02:19 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MoreYears (Post 656023)
I don't know what to think. If there's a commitment then pass DA along tax bill together at the same time, not after.

Trump administration is well know for flaking out on everything, and a commitment from Pence doesn't mean much.

Let's see how the cards are played out by everyone.

DA will go with the budget, not the tax bill, tax bill they will ram through with reconciliation (50 votes required), budget will need 60 since even though budget itself can pass under reconciliation, there's no way to put debt ceiling increase over that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by libertarian1776 (Post 656025)
so in theory for us who already qualify can cut the 10 year to 5?

Yes for citizenship. If you're married to a USC then even 3.

Naturalization via military is a little murky right now since the who bills differ in those sections. RACA has a section says that you can naturalize under INA 328 and 329. DA doesn't. Both have requirements to remove conditions before you can naturalize.

Thing to consider is that under Dream Act most of us will be eligible to be citizens in 5 years from the date the initial application is approved.

Swim19 12-01-2017 02:21 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by libertarian1776 (Post 656025)
so in theory for us who already qualify can cut the 10 year to 5?

I thought the conditional permanent residence was for a period of 8 years...at least that's what the DREAM Act text says.

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 02:21 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by libertarian1776 (Post 656025)
so in theory for us who already qualify can cut the 10 year to 5?

I'm not worried about the details right know. We need DA passed first.

Demise 12-01-2017 02:25 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swim19 (Post 656028)
I thought the conditional permanent residence was for a period of 8 years...at least that's what the DREAM Act text says.

They might differ a bit. Still, both let you remove conditions as soon as you meet the requirements without some mandatory wait times.

dtrt09 12-01-2017 02:27 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
This is not right. Democrats and Obama were "committed" to pass DA and CIR: words ared not deeds.

Fuck no. Attach DreamAct to the tax bill. Pence cannot make DreamAct happen.

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 02:29 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Demise (Post 656030)
They might differ a bit. Still, both let you remove conditions as soon as you meet the requirements without some mandatory wait times.

OK You guys got me thinking. 5 years wait for citizenship sounds awesome!!

Swim19 12-01-2017 02:30 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Demise (Post 656030)
They might differ a bit. Still, both let you remove conditions as soon as you meet the requirements without some mandatory wait times.

I see what you mean.

Demise 12-01-2017 02:30 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrt09 (Post 656031)
This is not right. Democrats and Obama were "committed" to pass DA and CIR: words ared not deeds.

Fuck no. Attach DreamAct to the tax bill. Pence cannot make DreamAct happen.

Tax bill can pass on its own with 50 votes since it's under reconciliation. The thing dems are holding hostage is the budget bill and debt ceiling, which will need a 60 which McConnell doesn't have.

Swim19 12-01-2017 02:34 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
@HallieJackson
Meanwhile, on Cap Hill: @JeffFlake tells me he’s supporting tax bill partly because @VP Pence personally assured him he’d be involved in DACA talks.

So: does he trust the White House to follow through?

Flake: “We’ll see. We’ll see. It’s an issue of trust. It always is.

https://twitter.com/HallieJackson/st...59803279118343

Dres2011 12-01-2017 02:38 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Sounds like hes using daca to clear up any criticism thats surely coming to him for voting yes on the tax bill.

JJ Glo 12-01-2017 02:38 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swim19 (Post 656037)
@HallieJackson
Meanwhile, on Cap Hill: @JeffFlake tells me he’s supporting tax bill partly because @VP Pence personally assured him he’d be involved in DACA talks.

So: does he trust the White House to follow through?

Flake: “We’ll see. We’ll see. It’s an issue of trust. It always is.

https://twitter.com/HallieJackson/st...59803279118343

That's it? Oh well, I guess only good can come out of this, Tax bill was gonna pass anyway.

Swim19 12-01-2017 02:40 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dres2011 (Post 656038)
Sounds like hes using daca to clear up any criticism thats surely coming to him for voting yes on the tax bill.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Glo (Post 656039)
That's it? Oh well, I guess only good can come out of this, Tax bill was gonna pass anyway.

Agreed...I don't think this hurts the chances of DREAM Act.

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-01-2017 02:43 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/1/1...lkouts-rallies


Yeah I am sure Americans would be thrill to get Tax Bill passed if it means DA passing as well :roll:

catportal 12-01-2017 02:45 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Glo (Post 655976)
Good faith, but what assurance does he have? just their word?

No. Even if it passes, it has to go through reconciliation. At that time, he can vote no if DACA is not handled.

Chn 12-01-2017 02:46 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catportal (Post 656043)
No. Even if it passes, it has to go through reconciliation. At that time, he can vote no if DACA is not handled.

Unless the House just takes up whatever the Senate passes...

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 02:50 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith (Post 656042)
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/1/1...lkouts-rallies


Yeah I am sure Americans would be thrill to get Tax Bill passed if it means DA passing as well :roll:

Right, they will pin the blame on us. We will get a GCs for higher taxes which will make living in the US less enticing. But If everything plays out like that then in ~5 years we could get citizenship and move the heck outtta here.

catportal 12-01-2017 02:50 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chn (Post 656044)
Unless the House just takes up whatever the Senate passes...

I think they are leaving things out of the Senate version which they will eventually put back in to force reconciliation (such as housing credits).

catportal 12-01-2017 02:51 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MoreYears (Post 656046)
Right, they will pin the blame on us. We will get a GCs for higher taxes which will make living in the US less enticing. But If everything plays out like that then in ~5 years we could get citizenship and move the heck outtta here.

Tax bill saves me almost $3K, great for single people that don't itemize. However corporations still get the most money out of this.

Ethoswithme 12-01-2017 02:51 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Why do you guys keep falling for it? Until I see the president sign the freaking bill. How many times this year have we been going through ups and down.

Today its this story and we think its a done deal. Tomorrow's new headline "No deal, republicans lose flake's vote"

isk84life 12-01-2017 02:52 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catportal (Post 656048)
Tax bill saves me almost $3K, great for single people that don't itemize. However corporations still get the most money out of this.

Same, the tax bill will actually benefit me...

g33k 12-01-2017 02:55 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
How does this helps DA?

SurfyB 12-01-2017 02:58 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frbc13 (Post 656016)
Since he realized he's probably gonna be POTUS next year

True dat, true dat fam.

Just saying any of you ever seen Pence talk or do something after the russia collusion thing started? xD

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 03:01 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
I live in California, everyone with a mortgage hates it here. It will limit the amount of mortgage interest you can deduct. Out of all states CA will lose the most with this bill AFAIK.

magdation1 12-01-2017 03:04 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Tax plan sucks, but I don't care take all the money if it allows me to work and travel. Yay Flake!

catportal 12-01-2017 03:06 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MoreYears (Post 656055)
I live in California, everyone with a mortgage hates it here. It will limit the amount of mortgage interest you can deduct. Out of all states CA will lose the most with this bill AFAIK.

Bill sucks for CA, because state taxes are very high. Great for no income tax states though.

SurfyB 12-01-2017 03:08 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MoreYears (Post 656055)
I live in California, everyone with a mortgage hates it here. It will limit the amount of mortgage interest you can deduct. Out of all states CA will lose the most with this bill AFAIK.

Do you think it was purposefully done that way so a blue state with an economic power like Cali gets fucked?

JJ Glo 12-01-2017 03:17 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Blue states will get hit the hardest.

Swim19 12-01-2017 03:21 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
@ericawerner
Here's Sen Flake describing what the administration agreed to on DACA to get his vote on taxes (not much)

https://twitter.com/ericawerner/stat...74151242326017

Click on above link to read Flake's comments

2MoreYears 12-01-2017 03:21 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfyB (Post 656060)
Do you think it was purposefully done that way so a blue state with an economic power like Cali gets fucked?

I do, they perhaps want CA to become red. Not sure if that could happen tho.

SurfyB 12-01-2017 03:24 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MoreYears (Post 656064)
I do, they perhaps want CA to become red. Not sure if that could happen tho.

I mean I'm pretty sure Californians know this thing was pushed by the GOP. It might become even more BLUE, I do hope if democrats get a majority in the house and hopefully 2020, they rework how elections are done here and rehaul a lot of shit that's wrong, like a Wyoming voter having 3.6 more voting power than a Californian.

4n0nym0us 12-01-2017 03:59 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Jeff Flake from Snowflake

nationalsfan 12-01-2017 04:00 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
just attach it to the tax bill, might as well get something out from that clustefuck of a bill

SurfyB 12-01-2017 04:02 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swim19 (Post 656063)
@ericawerner
Here's Sen Flake describing what the administration agreed to on DACA to get his vote on taxes (not much)

https://twitter.com/ericawerner/stat...74151242326017

Click on above link to read Flake's comments

So basically he agreed to fuck the poor for the wealthy and he didn't even get commitment for any policy regarding DACA, looks to me as just some excuse to vote in favor of taxing the less wealthy.

Fuck this administration and all the GOP fuckers.

ceaguila 12-01-2017 05:23 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
DACA state of play: Trouble in the Senate, pressure rising in the House

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politi...ess/index.html

Someone post the article, I can't right now.

Michcio07 12-01-2017 05:31 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Washington (CNN)Time continues to dwindle on the window President Donald Trump gave Congress to act when he ended the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, and pressure is mounting to resolve the issue by the end of the year.

But even as Democrats and a growing handful of Republicans are pressuring leadership to cut a deal, little progress has been made on bridging the divide between the parties.
First things first: This is still a game of chicken
We're not in a hugely different place than where we were before the Thanksgiving recess: There's a lot of motion around the edges, but not a lot of progress on a way to protect the young undocumented immigrants who arrived in the US as children that DACA protected. No one has blinked yet, and we haven't quite moved past the positioning phase.

When is the deadline?
Permits begin expiring in March (besides eligible recipients who didn't renew in time for the extension). Funding to run the government runs out December 8, but will likely be pushed to December 22. It remains unclear if Republicans will get their wish to push this again to January, or if Democrats will stick to their end-of-year target.
Republicans prepping letter to Ryan urging DACA fix

Senate stalemate?
Before Thanksgiving, talks in the Senate had been the most productive, with Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois working on behalf of Democrats to negotiate with a Republican working group spearheaded by Majority Whip John Cornyn of Texas and Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley of Iowa.

But those conversations have now stalled, both sides say. Here's what happened, according to Durbin and a source familiar with the Republican working group. The GOP side offered a proposal to Durbin that included border security, domestic immigration enforcement measures, mandatory worker verification, legal status for DACA recipients and limits to family-based migration, per the source, who asked to remain anonymous. Durbin said the offer also included changes to asylum standards, which the Democrat said would require changing an international treaty. The source familiar with the GOP side said the offer was presented with a willingness to negotiate as long as the final product includes border security and domestic enforcement, but the talks have now "stalled" as Democrats are "refusing to negotiate."

Durbin said it is true that negotiations have stopped -- but said it was because the other side wasn't being serious enough in its opening offer to not offer a complete nonstarter (in their eyes).

Republican won't vote for government funding without DACA deal
"First they said, 'We're not going to give you the Dream Act, and here are five things we must have that go way beyond border security.' They wanted to change an international treaty standard for asylum. What?" Durbin said with dramatic effect. "So I sat down with Grassley and Cornyn twice, personally, and said, 'Let's be honest. Neither of you have ever voted for an immigration bill and probably never will. I've got to sit down and negotiate with people who might vote for this bill.' So I've had a lot of different conversations going on since, including one with Sen. Cornyn."

Cornyn has an extensive border bill that numbers more than 400 pages, which Durbin has dismissed as too broad.

So where are we? Durbin says he has six Republicans who would support his Dream Act, which he has cosponsored with Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and he needs six more (there are 48 Democratic votes in the Senate, which is 12 fewer than a filibuster-proof 60). He says he's working on putting together a border security offer to entice them.

But here's the real play: Durbin says the funding bill is the only option
"We have to put the Dream Act and whatever accompanies it on a must-pass bill and send it to the House," Durbin said. "I think that's the only way it works. And they have basically invited us to do that for a lot of internal political reasons in the House."
DHS reverses course on some rejected DACA renewals


Just in case that sounded easy (hint: it's not), it's not just DACA that Democrats want attached to government funding.

"What we have decided, and I think makes sense, this has got to be one bill," Durbin said. "We have a lot of things to do. We're not going to pick favorites and run those, we're going to put them all together. And I think that's the only way to bring this to conclusion."

And so, even though Democrats have been careful to not explicitly threaten a shutdown without DACA, their message is clear: If you want our votes for funding, we expect a DACA deal we can vote for.

One final thing:
To get Sen. Jeff Flake to back the Senate Republican tax plan during a vote Friday, the Arizona Republican said, he was promised among other things "a firm commitment from the Senate leadership and the administration to work with me on a growth-oriented legislative solution to enact fair and permanent protections for DACA recipients." It's unclear how that will shape up specifically.

So what about in the House?
Things are getting interesting on the House side. Between 20 and 40 Republican lawmakers are preparing to sign a letter to House Speaker Paul Ryan, making clear they want a solution on DACA by the end of the year, as CNN reported here on Thursday. The lawmakers involved say the letter will not be an explicit threat to not vote for government funding without DACA, but the message is clear anyway. If two dozen lawmakers sign it, that alone is enough to deny Republicans a majority on any piece of legislation. If it's more -- and sources familiar tell me it could be in the 30s -- it's a warning sign for anyone who wants to avoid doing DACA this year.

DACA deal state of play
Ryan, for his part, remains cagey. He did initially broach the possibility of a spending deal with DACA on it in a closed-door meeting with conservative Republicans in late October, and has yet to explicitly rule it out.
Asked again Thursday if it's a possibility, Ryan demurred and didn't rule it out, hitting Democrats for boycotting a meeting with Trump earlier this week and saying, "The deadline is March as far as I understand it, we've got other deadlines ... but if they want to get to a solution they ought to get to the table and start talking."
One sign of momentum is the Problem Solvers Caucus. Rep. Carlos Curbelo of Florida, in becoming this week the first Republican to announce he would oppose government funding without DACA resolved, said the bipartisan group of moderates is getting close to a proposal that would marry some DACA proposals with some border security. It's unclear if that bill could gain any steam, but advocates of a compromise are heartened that at least one group seems to be making progress.

Ok, if this all comes down to a standoff, who has leverage?
At this point, Democrats.

Here's House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi explaining why most think Republicans would get the blame if government shuts down: "The Republicans have the majority in the House and the Senate and the White House. The responsibility to keep government open is theirs in the majority, and it's up to them to keep government open."
DHS nominee Kirstjen Nielsen: 'No need for a wall from sea to shining sea'
DHS nominee Kirstjen Nielsen: 'No need for a wall from sea to shining sea'
Democrats feel empowered to stick to their guns on this one: If their votes are needed to fund government, they hold the cards. Republicans can certainly try to blame them if a shutdown occurs, but Democrats are fairly confident Republicans will ultimately suffer, especially going into an election year, if the government shuts down on their watch over a sympathetic population of undocumented immigrants.

That doesn't mean Republicans are ready to blink yet. Even if some recognize they likely will have to give in to get funding, they're still going to try to extract as much for their base as they can. Thus the positioning that continues.

You know what might make life a lot easier for Republicans? Passing their tax bill
It's a separate issue, but Congress-watchers know that nothing in Washington happens in isolation. Republicans are keenly aware that they have yet to score a major win on legislation for Trump, and are worried that if the first thing they send to his desk is a plan for DACA recipients, that could be a big problem for the base. And you know who really loves to talk about tax reform? Speaker Ryan.

Oh, and by the way, Trump still remains the ultimate wild card
Remember in September when Trump tweeted about how he didn't understand how anyone could want DACA recipients deported, calling them "accomplished young people"? Supporters of DACA are hoping to see that Trump again soon. But this week, he tweeted that Democrats "want illegal immigrants flooding into our Country" and said he couldn't see a deal, prompting Pelosi and her Senate counterpart, Chuck Schumer, to pull out of a White House meeting that day. The fact remains: Trump can make this easier or harder. Lawmakers don't know which one they'll get -- and, for better or worse, they're not sure it matters until the actual moment the deal is being finalized.
CNN's Phil Mattingly, Deirdre Walsh and Ted Barrett contributed to this report.
There ya go

eva02 12-01-2017 05:33 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Passing tax reform for “the base” will lessen the blow Trump and Republicans have to pass dream act with the spending bill

VJB2 12-01-2017 05:38 PM

Re: Jeff Flake votes YES on TAX - Got Assurance on DACA!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eva02 (Post 656086)
Passing tax reform for “the base” will lessen the blow Trump and Republicans have to pass dream act with the spending bill


It's tricky, because half of me sees it this way and the other half sees it as 'Trump wants to desperately sign something' so if the tax bull fails, he'll be even more desperate to sign the spending bill .. but we'll see. Maybe he'll just think of himself, as if he doesn't already, the best president ever if he gets to sign two bills... one of which he will receive the most praise for (Dream Act).


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