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Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 10:15 PM

Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
I am utterly frustrated by the analyses of experts and community activists who argue that the probability of the DREAM Act becoming a
law is very low in the next two years. Yes, advancing the DREAM Act
will be more difficult in the next two years if we completely assume
that Republicans will always be the roadblock and Democratic senators
are the only ones who can advance an immigration bill. We cannot not
depend on or wait until the elections of 2012 to pressure for the passage
of the DREAM Act. What will happen if Republicans gain control of both
congressional chambers in 2012? What will Dreamers do then? Wait two
more years to see if Democrats gain control of both houses?

The passage of the DREAM Act cannot wait. We have to fight to pressure legislators to re-introduce this bill every year until the DREAM becomes a reality. That being said, I am urging everyone to pressure for a new strategy in passing the DREAM Act. Activists must contact Democratic senators,
such as Richard Durbin, and President Obama and tell them that the DREAM Act must be an AUTHENTIC bipartisan bill. Congressional Democrats and Republicans must work together to create a new version of the DREAM Act. Bipartisanship is possible; consider the Tax Cuts and Unemployment Benefits law that the President signed into law.

Most importantly, the DREAM Act, if re-introduced in 2011, cannot be rushed, and it should thoroughly acknowledge/tackle the concerns that some Republicans, such as Senator Sessions, presented in terms of, for example, application fraud.

Overall, do not give up and keep fighting. I don't know about any of you, but I prefer to die than to give up on my dreams.

Mind/MatterInCali 12-21-2010 10:29 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Well said sir. Do you think we should request a bachelors degree as an immediate pre requisite?
I mean should we say bachelors degree and 10 year conditional status? What do you guys think the Republican Dream Act would ask for?

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 10:36 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Hi. Thank you for your kind words. I think it should require a B.A. if it would reduce the chances of fraud and "chain" immigration--which so many Republicans say that the act would cause. If the ten-year conditional, non-immigrant status would not affect my chance of getting a job or using my degree, then yes.

I have read several posts by people on a source that some Republicans might write their own version of the DREAM Act next year. Lowering the age cut-off would really anger alot of people. I don't think that would make a difference in deterring fraud.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 10:43 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Furthermore, I think a new version of the act should SPECIFICALLY describe the legal processes for, as an example, determining that an applicant did indeed arrive in the US before the age of sixteen. Which documents will courts/immigration officials review? How will this be funded? I think Senator Sessions, although a weird little man, did raise several good points that a new version of the act would need to acknowledge.

Mind/MatterInCali 12-21-2010 10:52 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
You're welcome bro. I believe and agree that a bachelors degree, conditional status, and a strict background check would be ideal as imminent requirements. If I were opposed to the bill I would require DHS to request official transcripts sealed and stamped from the direct university. I mean think about it...supposedly they're worried that people would buy high school diplomas online. Lmao. Come on, make a bachelors degree a requirement then. It would benefit the country and the beneficiary. The essence of a bachelors degree can possibly be a starting point. I don’t see how they can say "no" to this. Bachelors degree, strict background check, and 10 year conditional status... would you oppose or would you find this fair? Let me know what you think and or what they'd say.

Mind/MatterInCali 12-21-2010 10:56 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
About having proof that I've been here before 16, that'd be easy! I have all my elemennraty school pictures. I have my junior high/intermediate school year books as well as high school. Best of all, I have both my AA degree graduation picture alongside my bachelors degree graduation pic :0)

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 10:57 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Very good!!! When I was reading some points of the house bill, I saw that 2 years requirement of college or military service as a major weakness.

I know some of us have made some mistakes in life, but I would also require that applicants not have any misdemeanors or felonies in their record--no offense to anyone.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 10:58 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Maybe, getting professors to write official, signed recommendation letters for the Dream applicants would also help to reduce fraud.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 11:02 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mind/MatterInCali (Post 201653)
About having proof that I've been here before 16, that'd be easy! I have all my elemennraty school pictures. I have my junior high/intermediate school year books as well as high school. Best of all, I have both my AA degree graduation picture alongside my bachelors degree graduation pic :0)

Good. Durbin should have included this type of information in the bill. Some parts were specific, but others were kind of broad.

Mind/MatterInCali 12-21-2010 11:13 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Good point. Letters of recommendation as evidence. Official transcripts from your university. I would love to plead my case with any and all who were opposed. Ahhh, life. The troubles and tribulations of life... life as graduate. Life as an alumni, and a DREAMER all intertwined. Ahhh...DREAMERS, patience is a virtue. Life could be worse. When you can't have what you want, you have to work with what you have!

dexcess 12-21-2010 11:41 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Dudes, we can legislate ourselves until the cows come home. Bottom line, is not the bill itself that needs to be changed but the form of activism we partake in. Faxes and calls aren't enough.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 11:46 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dexcess (Post 201667)
Dudes, we can legislate ourselves until the cows come home. Bottom line, is not the bill itself that needs to be changed but the form of activism we partake in. Faxes and calls aren't enough.

Good point. Regardless of the startegy you use, the point is to get a message of bipartisanship across.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-21-2010 11:57 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dexcess (Post 201667)
Dudes, we can legislate ourselves until the cows come home. Bottom line, is not the bill itself that needs to be changed but the form of activism we partake in. Faxes and calls aren't enough.

I respectfully disagree when you state that the content of the bill does not need to be changed. It does. For the past monts, Dreamers protested--using strategies from sit-ins to calls. You might suggest that people could take more radical measures (such as handcuffing yourself to the door of a legislator's car) to get policymakers to support our dreams. But, legislators--regardless of the sacrifices that Dreamers make--will refuse to advocate a bill that consists of major flaws or does not tackle the concerns of opponents (one being border security). So, you can tatoo that words "DREAM Act" on the back of your head; legislators will not support the bill if it is TOO faulty.

dexcess 12-22-2010 12:17 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaliciense _DREAMER (Post 201674)
I respectfully disagree when you state that the content of the bill does not need to be changed. It does. For the past monts, Dreamers protested--using strategies from sit-ins to calls. You might suggest that people could take more radical measures (such as handcuffing yourself to the door of a legislator's car) to get policymakers to support our dreams. But, legislators--regardless of the sacrifices that Dreamers make--will refuse to advocate a bill that consists of major flaws or does not tackle the concerns of opponents (one being border security). So, you can tatoo that words "DREAM Act" on the back of your head; legislators will not support the bill if it is TOO faulty.

I'm not saying go to extremes and paint the letter DA on your butt cheeks while you streak through the white house lawn. I'm saying we need to rework the we get our message across. Yeah, adding some sort border security clause which would be pointless but comforting to conservatives is key but there's already so much missinformation out there about the bill to begin with. I mean, there were tens of senators last Saturday who stood there and blatantly lied about the bill. Faxing and calling to beg for the DA just doesn't get the message across. It just becomes nagging. If we're going to bombard them with anything, it's going to be information rather than vague pleas.

cooltalker 12-22-2010 01:16 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaliciense _DREAMER (Post 201674)
I respectfully disagree when you state that the content of the bill does not need to be changed. It does.

No matter how many changes we make, the antis are still going to call it amnesty. Even if we write a bill making it extremely hard for people to qualify and meet the requirements, the antis would still call it amnesty.

Remember, Sessions said this bill would grant citizenship to all 12 million people. Obviously, he was lying or he didn't read the bill.

Any bill offering legal status will be called unfair and amnesty.

The bottom line is why make the bill a pain-in-the-ass for us, if in the end it will be called amnesty?

We need the original bill back. It was much more fair. That's all.

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-22-2010 02:08 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
The both of you are correct. Some senators did lie about the bill. And no matter how hard policymakers try to consider diverse views, inflexible opponents will always find some excuse to oppose some form of legalization. Indeed, opposition will always exist on this divisive issue. But maybe, a genuine bipartisan bill that acknowledges the concerns of some "moderate" conservatives might help gain SUFFICIENT support for the DREAM, making it a reality. Call me optimistic, but that's my viewpoint. Overall, waiting until 2012 like some analysts suggest we do is futile and a blatant waste of time. Despite the odds/political analyses, we need to fight for this every year until it becomes a reality.

2Face 12-22-2010 03:33 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Before even mentioning anything relating to legalization, we should push congress to once and for all enact legislation to secure our borders. Because this is the number one excuse that Republicans are using to divert away from bringing us out of the shadows. Now many of us have this feeling that the border will never be secure just like every single bill is going to be an amnesty. We have no option but to cave in to the Republicans demands because clearly they are representing the stronger party. Obama has to pump more money into securing the border so he can make key republicans happy like Senator McCain. Only then he will support some sort of legalization.

getem 12-22-2010 11:55 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Americans don't care about what education you have , their main issues are chain migration and border security,adding border security to the bill would wrk,the united states/Mexico border can be secured properly but illegal immigration cannot never be stopped, why cuz people over stay their visa also . any immigration reform is called amensty by the anti's. 245i was called an amensty which it was surely not 1.my point is making the bill harder for us makes nosense because their is no border security and their is chain migration after 13yrs ,the thing is if border security was added would it of passed still nope, it would of gotten republicans support but dems don't believe in securing that border and finishing that fence otherwise it would of been done long time ago. The first thing obama did when he became president was stop that fence. so their your conflict right there.... the bill do need some common sense into writing it which its lacking but like my friend up there said it how to getting the message across better.

MrsMom 12-22-2010 11:59 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
No offense, but one of the things that the hard-line haters hate the very most is a college degree. Because, in their opinion, colleges are breeding grounds for intellectuals (they don't like intellectuals), and commies, and homosexuals, and scientists, and "elitists" and all sort of other things they do not like. So I am pretty sure that flaunting your level of education is not going to win you any friends. It will probably get you some lip service among the actual establishment - but the haters who are the ones who have them quaking in fear - will not be swayed.

You might even become one of those failed muslim convert terrorists with the hispanic names that somehow surfaced just prior to the vote.

The border security issue is problematic ( as I keep saying ) because we have been looking for Osama bin Laden for going on 10 years - how is that working out ? How much money have we thrown at that problem ? So if they are waiting for a 'secure' border - good luck. If they just want money for it, that might be a good negotiating point.

And the 'document fraud' argument - I think are the same ones who are convinced that President Obama is not a U.S. Citizen, and therefore, not President. I think that if the President can not convince them that he has the correct paperwork - you will be out of luck.

Just trying to point out that by "bipartisan" the antis mean "f#$ off and die"

Jaliciense _DREAMER 12-22-2010 02:22 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsMom (Post 201791)
No offense, but one of the things that the hard-line haters hate the very most is a college degree. Because, in their opinion, colleges are breeding grounds for intellectuals (they don't like intellectuals), and commies, and homosexuals, and scientists, and "elitists" and all sort of other things they do not like. So I am pretty sure that flaunting your level of education is not going to win you any friends. It will probably get you some lip service among the actual establishment - but the haters who are the ones who have them quaking in fear - will not be swayed.

You might even become one of those failed muslim convert terrorists with the hispanic names that somehow surfaced just prior to the vote.

The border security issue is problematic ( as I keep saying ) because we have been looking for Osama bin Laden for going on 10 years - how is that working out ? How much money have we thrown at that problem ? So if they are waiting for a 'secure' border - good luck. If they just want money for it, that might be a good negotiating point.

And the 'document fraud' argument - I think are the same ones who are convinced that President Obama is not a U.S. Citizen, and therefore, not President. I think that if the President can not convince them that he has the correct paperwork - you will be out of luck.

Just trying to point out that by "bipartisan" the antis mean "f#$ off and die"

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Someone mentioned the political division on border security between Democrats and Republicans. In this case, this is where Obama should show some leadership like he did on the Tax Cuts and Unemployment Benefits bill, negotiating with Republicans on legalization and border security. Waiting until 2012 is fruitless and reflects a defeatist attitude.

jkl 12-22-2010 04:27 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
I think people who overstayed their VISA sould be excluded in the next DA if they came here after 18.

pimentel2 12-22-2010 05:33 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jkl (Post 201850)
I think people who overstayed their VISA sould be excluded in the next DA if they came here after 18.

It clearly states that you had to come here after the age of 16, and be here for 5 consecutive years prior to the passage of the bill.

cacleaner 01-09-2011 06:56 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
It really is delicious thought. I wish i was a part of it!

theboys2010 01-09-2011 01:19 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dexcess (Post 201667)
Dudes, we can legislate ourselves until the cows come home. Bottom line, is not the bill itself that needs to be changed but the form of activism we partake in. Faxes and calls aren't enough.

Exactly the rah rah stuff does not work taking it to the courts and then the Supreme court takes all the politics out of it.

theboys2010 01-09-2011 01:26 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by getem (Post 201789)
Americans don't care about what education you have , their main issues are chain migration and border security,adding border security to the bill would wrk,the united states/Mexico border can be secured properly but illegal immigration cannot never be stopped, why cuz people over stay their visa also . any immigration reform is called amensty by the anti's. 245i was called an amensty which it was surely not 1.my point is making the bill harder for us makes nosense because their is no border security and their is chain migration after 13yrs ,the thing is if border security was added would it of passed still nope, it would of gotten republicans support but dems don't believe in securing that border and finishing that fence otherwise it would of been done long time ago. The first thing obama did when he became president was stop that fence. so their your conflict right there.... the bill do need some common sense into writing it which its lacking but like my friend up there said it how to getting the message across better.

The American people want to make sure that the border is secure and there will never be put in this same predicament and will have controlled immigration for this country. Similar to china, Germany, etc to do that everything will have to put and passed from E=verigy,no chain migration, border security etc then American will pass the Dream Act only other way is take it to the Supreme Court pull the politics out of it and if the SC makes a judgment its automatically instated.

Jelly Bean Lover 01-11-2011 11:19 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
I think changing the bill won't do much except act as a nod to the extremists on the right, who will then make more extreme demands. The only thing that would be fair and answer their stupid criticisms would be to specifically bar DREAMers from sponsoring family members later, as an answer to the bogus "chain migration" theory.

The real solution, though, is to win votes and seats for pro-immigrant candidates. If extremists can't win elections, that sends a better message than a million phone calls.

theboys2010 01-12-2011 12:55 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelly Bean Lover (Post 206040)
I think changing the bill won't do much except act as a nod to the extremists on the right, who will then make more extreme demands. The only thing that would be fair and answer their stupid criticisms would be to specifically bar DREAMers from sponsoring family members later, as an answer to the bogus "chain migration" theory.

The real solution, though, is to win votes and seats for pro-immigrant candidates. If extremists can't win elections, that sends a better message than a million phone calls.

Chain migration is the probably the biggest issue of them all if it is not addressed than nothing will ever be done on CIR or Dream act. The country is the most pissed off because when Reagan gave 4 million amnesty the bill he passed had all types of immigration laws to say that was it. Nobody enforced the law and now we have 18 million illegals in the country. So this country will not get burned again this issue sticks with voters more than anything. This country will do the right thing eventually it wont happen or look anything like you would want if its done politically it will be scaled down and very limited but the country will do the right thing.

Pursuitofhappiness 01-16-2011 07:23 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
You know, in order to get DA to get through GOP, it should include slavery for 2 years and get locked up in concentration camp, etc. etc.
Then, they still wouldn't pass it.

DA User 01-17-2011 03:14 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
I think the original version can be passed this year along with CIR with a strong border security measure.

qingshu 01-20-2011 03:39 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mind/MatterInCali (Post 201642)
Well said sir. Do you think we should request a bachelors degree as an immediate pre requisite?
I mean should we say bachelors degree and 10 year conditional status? What do you guys think the Republican Dream Act would ask for?

That defeats the purpose of a core element of DREAM act. Not every DREAMer is as lucky as some of you who have supportive parents who were able to pay your way to getting a bachelors. DREAM act is supposed to help these children relief their international students tuition so they may complete their education.

I am all for more strict measures in order to get this thing passed. But ridding of this element seems to touch upon a pillar of this act and make DREAM seem more like "Just give me a greencard" ACT instead of giving us all a chance to *pursue* education.

Thecure 01-20-2011 05:13 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuitofhappiness (Post 206879)
You know, in order to get DA to get through GOP, it should include slavery for 2 years and get locked up in concentration camp, etc. etc.
Then, they still wouldn't pass it.

ha ha ha ha.

Jelly Bean Lover 01-23-2011 09:00 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theboys2010 (Post 206061)
Chain migration is the probably the biggest issue of them all if it is not addressed than nothing will ever be done on CIR or Dream act. The country is the most pissed off because when Reagan gave 4 million amnesty the bill he passed had all types of immigration laws to say that was it. Nobody enforced the law and now we have 18 million illegals in the country. So this country will not get burned again this issue sticks with voters more than anything. This country will do the right thing eventually it wont happen or look anything like you would want if its done politically it will be scaled down and very limited but the country will do the right thing.

Chain migration is a bullshit theory. If you came here illegally, it is minimum 20 years before you can get anybody into the country legally. It may be smart to address it in a bill, but it may also just be another one of those concessions to the hard right that just moves CIR more in the enforcement/deportation direction.

DareToAct 01-26-2011 01:25 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Excuses excuses EXCUSES thats all that it is the DREAM Act is not part of the border issue because not all of us came across the border and even if you were it is still not your fault. The issue at hand is that we are being blamed and considered criminals for something that we have nothing to do with. Anyways the border issue is being dealt with (just look at the media and the stupid shows like Border Wars) , now what about dealing with the immigration issue?

Biblio 01-26-2011 04:07 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by countryless2012 (Post 208144)
I don't see the emphasizes being put on the degree type more than the economical and security issues being passed. There are productive two year degree programs that would allow people to become contributing members of society. Any type of immigration laws being passed have been shown by the states by the past month. They want Border Security,Voter ID, no chain migration, they dont want the head of the department of homeland security to be able to give out amnesty to large mass of immigrants like the Dream Act that did not pass had in it, English speaking, E-Verify etc. Basically any type of law that is part of CIR needs to be passed before anything is passed. These type of laws are being voted on right now in large immigrant states. The toughest one will be the Border security issue because who is going to say the border is secure its a moving target with a political consequence.

You sound familiar...

Hannie 05-08-2011 08:01 AM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qingshu (Post 207444)
That defeats the purpose of a core element of DREAM act. Not every DREAMer is as lucky as some of you who have supportive parents who were able to pay your way to getting a bachelors. DREAM act is supposed to help these children relief their international students tuition so they may complete their education.

I am all for more strict measures in order to get this thing passed. But ridding of this element seems to touch upon a pillar of this act and make DREAM seem more like "Just give me a greencard" ACT instead of giving us all a chance to *pursue* education.

Thank you!

JohannBernoulli1667 05-08-2011 11:20 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hannie (Post 216252)
Thank you!

I agree Hannie, It is hard to be in that situation. I have been through it my self. Involves a lot of hard work. Nothing that is not achievable though. Keep fighting!

erikaortiz1 05-26-2011 05:52 PM

Re: Dreamers Cannot Wait Until 2012. We Must Fight Every Year Until This Bill Passes
 
I have been here almost since I was born I am very educated invidulal and I could always get my elementary report card records and high school I am a dream and I want this Dream act all with the condition of proving legit information about your school records dont really care about misdeameadors and felonies some minors made mistakes in early age before they were in full mature knowledge


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