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swordfish 01-16-2013 11:49 AM

Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Really? We don't care about citizenship? I would take legalization without path to citizenship but I want to be a citizen of this country.
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Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship


Editor's note: Ruben Navarrette is a CNN contributor and a nationally syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group. Follow him on Twitter: @rubennavarrette


(CNN) -- What is President Obama up to? When it comes to immigration, it's usually no good.

After all, this is the same president who ran for re-election packaged as a kinder and gentler alternative to cold-hearted Republicans who wanted illegal immigrants to "self deport" while, back at the ranch, the Department of Homeland Security was removing illegal immigrants 24/7 at a record pace. In the 2012 fiscal year that ended September 30, an unprecedented 409,849 people were deported. This was an increase from the previous year and it occurred despite policy changes -- i.e., those spelled out in the March 2011 memo by Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director John Morton urging prosecutorial discretion -- that were supposedly going to limit removals to hardened criminals.

In four years, the administration has removed a record 1.5 million illegal immigrants. And while administration officials may insist that many of them were guilty of felonies and thus less sympathetic, they leave out that under current law, a nanny or gardener who is deported and simply re-enters the country is a felon.


But there are two bright spots in Obama's immigration record. Last summer, the White House announced a policy change that lets undocumented young people avoid deportation by applying for deferred action and two-year work permits. And last month, in a much more obscure change, the administration said it would ease requirements to help undocumented immigrants who seek permanent residency and must return to their home countries to do so.


These folks currently have to wait up to 10 years outside the United States before being able to legally re-enter. But there is a waiver that gives them permission to return to the United States sooner if their U.S.-based families would suffer an extreme hardship from the separation. Under the change, immigrants can remain in the United States while applying for that waiver.


Now Obama wants to go further. According to the New York Times, Obama plans to finally make good on a 2008 campaign promise and push Congress in the next few months to move quickly on comprehensive immigration reform. His plan, which he is expected to unveil in the State of the Union address on February 12, includes a path to citizenship for most of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States.


It won't be easy. For one thing, there is the politics. As immigration reform advocates have learned over the last 12 years, there is no magic formula. From 2001 to 2007, Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress; from 2009 to 2011, it was Democrats who controlled both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. And either time, nothing got done on immigration.

And there is always a deal breaker. In 2005-2007, the last time that Congress took up this debate, the big obstacle was guest workers. Republicans insisted on language that would have brought in a few hundred thousand guest workers to do jobs that Americans aren't doing. Under pressure from labor unions, Democrats objected. The result was a stalemate.




This time, the major sticking point is likely to be citizenship. Democrats, including Obama, have said they won't budge on their demand that undocumented immigrants get not just legal status, but also a pathway to citizenship. Naturally.

The GOP brand is so toxic with Latino immigrants right now that we could be talking about millions of new Democratic voters, which is precisely why the GOP won't go along with immigration reform if a direct path to citizenship is in the mix. As for whether it should be, I don't think so.


Here are three reasons why not:


-- Illegal immigrants don't care about citizenship nearly as much as politicians do. Their concerns are practical, not ideological. They want driver's licenses, the freedom to go to work without living under the threat of being picked up and deported and the ability to go back and forth between the United States and their home country;


-- As long as Republicans are dead-set against citizenship, we'll never get a deal on immigration reform because -- unlike the health care debate -- this issue doesn't unite Democrats. Many of those in the Midwest and South remain adamantly opposed to legalizing the undocumented. So without Republican votes, it's back to square one; and


-- U.S. citizenship is something special, and it has great value. It ought not to be bartered away in a round of horse-trading. By all means, those who are legalized should be allowed to become citizens, but only by their own effort and on their own steam. There should not be a roadblock to citizenship, but nether does there need to be a direct pathway.



Politicians always play the same game when it comes to immigration. Democrats ask for the moon and stars, and the Republicans go into orbit. They want away from the table, and Democrats don't have the votes to do anything without them. So nothing gets done. Each side blames the other. Back to the drawing board. The status quo is preserved. See you in 10 years.


But, when that happens, the people who lose are the very ones who many people say they want to help -- those 11 million undocumented immigrants who live in the United States and contribute to our economy. They're caught in suspended animation, not belonging to one country or another. They deserve a pathway to legal status, and a final resolution to a debate that really isn't as difficult as some make it.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/16/opinio...ration-reform/

cacheton011 01-16-2013 12:03 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
He went to Harvard to become a writer? Seriously?

lol, a community college would have sufficed.

ItsKdC 01-16-2013 12:12 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
I am currently 26 (27 in a month)...that will equal maybe 40-50 years remaining in my life where i will be working and paying taxes in this country. If i am doing my part to help keep this country, then why shouldn't i be allowed to be a citizen of this country?

2Face 01-16-2013 12:18 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
So that means we can't have green cards either? Isn't having permanent residency a path to citizenship? Whats the point of just plain old DACA like status for the rest of our lives. We're not leaving from this country. It makes no sense to not provide a path to citizenship. This path is long. I read in another article Obama's plan would take 8 years to get just a green card. That undocumented bloc is contributing so much in terms of economy and getting the immigrant population to vote for Democrats. In return, there should be a path to citizenship. I really don't think the Dems will compromise with this.

chocolatedrop 01-16-2013 12:58 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Face (Post 410717)
So that means we can't have green cards either? Isn't having permanent residency a path to citizenship? Whats the point of just plain old DACA like status for the rest of our lives. We're not leaving from this country. It makes no sense to not provide a path to citizenship. This path is long. I read in another article Obama's plan would take 8 years to get just a green card. That undocumented bloc is contributing so much in terms of economy and getting the immigrant population to vote for Democrats. In return, there should be a path to citizenship. I really don't think the Dems will compromise with this.

Your are right the Dems will not compromise ..& the Republicans won't budge,so what does that leave us with a stalemate...Nobody wants to solve this ...its all smoke and mirrors..This will make the health care debate look like peanuts..More than likely the 11 million will get a legal presence but no path towards citizenship and they will say this is the only way we could get it done...and that back taxes BS they keep mentioning...who will provide that figure..will be est by avg American pay / yr in taxes then added to # you can prove in the county..or a nice round figure of let's say 500-1000 / yr for 5 yrs...either way its gonna be so darn high less than a third will cine forward...look at our numbers and its only 465.00 ..this is one political nightmare..even if the Dems win every election for the next 4 presidency..it still won't change these political pundits who keep the hatred fired up for immigrants in this country...

Smooth 01-16-2013 01:04 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cacheton011 (Post 410712)
He went to Harvard to become a writer? Seriously?

lol, a community college would have sufficed.

Yeah exactly. And, what is amazing is that his pieces have not necessarily been intellectually enriching and well-argued.

The guy has a big ol' head. That's all. Someone needs to bring him back to earth.

2Face 01-16-2013 01:23 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chocolatedrop (Post 410727)
Your are right the Dems will not compromise ..& the Republicans won't budge,so what does that leave us with a stalemate...Nobody wants to solve this ...its all smoke and mirrors..This will make the health care debate look like peanuts..More than likely the 11 million will get a legal presence but no path towards citizenship and they will say this is the only way we could get it done...and that back taxes BS they keep mentioning...who will provide that figure..will be est by avg American pay / yr in taxes then added to # you can prove in the county..or a nice round figure of let's say 500-1000 / yr for 5 yrs...either way its gonna be so darn high less than a third will cine forward...look at our numbers and its only 465.00 ..this is one political nightmare..even if the Dems win every election for the next 4 presidency..it still won't change these political pundits who keep the hatred fired up for immigrants in this country...

No..I am dead sure CIR will pass with a path to citizenship. The major Republicans known to have worked on CIR in the past like McCain, Graham, and a few others are in full support. Marco Rubio is the only thorn in this battle. I'm afraid he is gathering some major steam. Before it gets too late, Obama needs to move VERY quickly and get this shit done. It's not going to be as tough as in previous years. Seriously you can't just give 11 million + people DACA like status only. It has to be a full fledged solution. I think its a done deal on arrival in the Senate. Boehner and Cantor will create problems in the House. But I think the Senate leaders can compromise with Boehner to allow a bill like this in his chamber. Like I said, the only person here who is not genuine is Marco Rubio. Everything tells me he is playing a major betrayal game.

dado123 01-16-2013 02:47 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
I think I could live with this proposal, its only folks like my parents, whom I think should have the right to become citizens, but lets be honest their drive/steam to get through all the loop holes that may be presented will be difficult to accomplish. Lets hope we see some legislation in writing other than just concepts soon.

msaccountant 01-16-2013 03:12 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cacheton011 (Post 410712)
He went to Harvard to become a writer? Seriously?

lol, a community college would have sufficed.

How sure can we be that he went to Harvard? I can stand right here and tell people I went to Harvard so what? :lol:

Anyways, I will not settle for some immigration reform that does not allow one to become a citizen of this country. Why do they keep trying to push us into marrying USC's? Lots of people out there especially workers might not 'care' about becoming citizens only because they don't know how much that would change their lives. Because to them being able to work and 'live in peace' is enough. That's not how one should have to live though. What about your rights and duties?

I want to be able to become a citizen I will not live my entire life on something like DACA wondering every 2 years if I will get approved, if I will get that position, if my state will decide to keep allowing me to drive with a license, and if ICE will decide to kick me out out of the random just because a couple of politicians can't get their act together. Don't they see that this sort of thing doesn't solve anything? How in the world can they even predict who I'll vote for in the future?

NK74 01-16-2013 03:22 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Face (Post 410738)
No..I am dead sure CIR will pass with a path to citizenship. The major Republicans known to have worked on CIR in the past like McCain, Graham, and a few others are in full support. Marco Rubio is the only thorn in this battle. I'm afraid he is gathering some major steam. Before it gets too late, Obama needs to move VERY quickly and get this shit done. It's not going to be as tough as in previous years. Seriously you can't just give 11 million + people DACA like status only. It has to be a full fledged solution. I think its a done deal on arrival in the Senate. Boehner and Cantor will create problems in the House. But I think the Senate leaders can compromise with Boehner to allow a bill like this in his chamber. Like I said, the only person here who is not genuine is Marco Rubio. Everything tells me he is playing a major betrayal game.

It doesn't matter what McCain or Rubio thinks.

It matters what the 51st House Republican thinks!

Dems should fight for citizenship, but if they cannot get their way, a compromise is in order.

Nic89 01-16-2013 03:49 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
To being USC is just diffrent mean to it, if we are paying same amount of taxes, if we are human, if we are to follow same sets of rules and regulation then why we got be 2nd class citizen for life?.

msaccountant 01-16-2013 03:58 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic89 (Post 410813)
To being USC is just diffrent mean to it, if we are paying same amount of taxes, if we are human, if we are to follow same sets of rules and regulation then why we got be 2nd class citizen for life?.

Exactly and perhaps they might say oh all those dreamers will be able to become citizens. But what about our relatives, neighbors and people who age out of the dream act? Why must there be a 2nd class?

2Face 01-16-2013 04:15 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NK74 (Post 410798)
It doesn't matter what McCain or Rubio thinks.

It matters what the 51st House Republican thinks!

Dems should fight for citizenship, but if they cannot get their way, a compromise is in order.

Yes sir. I think you meant Senators. Well the thing is, in the Senate they will need 60 votes for cloture (in 2010 DA got 55 thus being murdered by 5 missing votes) and then a simple majority to pass the bill. Regardless, I get the feeling the leadership is there in the Senate. The Senate is where this new CIR push will get birth. It's going to be debated there first. I firmly expect it to pass because some of these GOP senators are genuine so far with the compromise except for Rubio. The main struggle and fireworks will be in the House for sure. Can't wait. GOP cornered me thinks.

Demise 01-16-2013 04:15 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
I noticed that every time an article has 1-2 paragraphs regarding all the great achievements of the author, you know the author is a massive piece of shit. It's like he needs reinforcement that he is not in fact a massive turd, he's just more disadvantaged than everyone else and the whole world is mean.

swordfish 01-16-2013 04:18 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
If you tell GOP you want citizenship you may just get legalization (and maybe a long path to citizenship)
If you tell GOP you just want legalization all you get is DACA.
If you tell GOP all you want is DACA all you have is more border security and more deportations.

bertdude7 01-16-2013 04:28 PM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
If anything like this does pass the House, it will not pass in the Senate without Democrats adding amendments. Democrats will NOT compromise on this issue.

chocolatedrop 01-17-2013 09:43 AM

Re: Solve immigration without a quick path to citizenship
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Face (Post 410738)
No..I am dead sure CIR will pass with a path to citizenship. The major Republicans known to have worked on CIR in the past like McCain, Graham, and a few others are in full support. Marco Rubio is the only thorn in this battle. I'm afraid he is gathering some major steam. Before it gets too late, Obama needs to move VERY quickly and get this shit done. It's not going to be as tough as in previous years. Seriously you can't just give 11 million + people DACA like status only. It has to be a full fledged solution. I think its a done deal on arrival in the Senate. Boehner and Cantor will create problems in the House. But I think the Senate leaders can compromise with Boehner to allow a bill like this in his chamber. Like I said, the only person here who is not genuine is Marco Rubio. Everything tells me he is playing a major betrayal game.

I hope you are right,as you can see Americans love their guns,and hate foreigners.Unfortunately American's believe this is "THEIR" COUNTRY.. Obama not only has to appeal to Republicans ,but also to his own Democratic party remember the DA failed in the house because a number of Democrats voted against it..All I know is when this battle starts it will separate the Men/Women from the boys/girls ..it also has to be introduced immediately..All I hope for is that this so called Gang of Eight have set forth a real outline to immigration reform & that the 4 republicans are serious about getting their party on board...Now will everyone be happy NO..let's face it this will be the battle of the Century !!!!!


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