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-   -   Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul (http://dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?t=62728)

Ianus 08-18-2013 09:08 PM
Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
http://union-bulletin.com/news/2013/...th-soul-of-us/
Quote:
I used to believe that clearing up the skilled-immigrant backlog and creating a startup visa should be Congress’ top legislative priorities. This is what I focused on in my book, “Immigrant Exodus.”

If you had told me a documentary could shift my mindset, I would have said you were crazy. That was before I watched “Documented” — a film that made me realize there is a piece of legislation even more desperately in need of passage: the DREAM Act.

There are an estimated 1.8 million children in the United States who could be classified as “illegal immigrants,” according to the Immigration Policy Center. They didn’t knowingly break any laws. Their parents brought them to this country to give them a better future.

These “DREAMers” as they are called, grew up as Americans, believing they were entitled to the same rights and freedoms as their friends. But, because they don’t have the proper paperwork, they are forced to live in the shadows of society — as second-class human beings with limits on where they can work and study, and what they can do.

This is unconscionable in a country that prides itself on being a champion of human rights.

This reality was brought to life for me in the film by Jose Antonio Vargas, a Filipino immigrant brought to this country when he was 12 years old. Vargas shared a Pulitzer Prize for a story he co-wrote while working at The Washington Post in 2007, and he made headlines two years ago by revealing in a New York Times Magazine article that he is an undocumented immigrant.

In “Documented,” Vargas tells of how he didn’t know he was illegal until he was 16, when he went to apply for a driver’s license. He lived, from that point on, in constant fear of being deported. At every turn, through his days at school and his rise through the ranks of journalism, he would have to lie about his status.

#Most troublesome was the way he was cut off from his mother, who sent him away to live with his grandparents in America. He couldn’t travel back to the Philippines and she couldn’t get a visa to travel to America. So, for over 20 years, they drifted apart.

#Vargas’ story changed me, giving me a clearer window on the life of an illegal immigrant. His story and the manner in which it is told makes you better understand their emotions and hardships.

I hope all of our political leaders watch this film. They need to understand that skilled immigration is an economic issue that is directly tied to the health of our economy.

But this is about more than the economy: providing basic human rights to the millions of undocumented children who live in the shadows of U.S. society is something we must do to heal the soul of this nation.

Comprehensive immigration reform is caught in the quagmire of partisan politics. At best, the odds are 50-50 that any legislation will pass. It is bad enough we are gambling with the economic future of this country. Let’s not gamble with the lives of its DREAMers.

Congress should approve the DREAM Act as a down payment. This can’t wait.

Atelier 08-18-2013 09:37 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Jose Antonio Vargas is 32 years old. A dream act should only pass if it includes 'older' dreamers otherwise it is not a good deal.

Happyman0607 08-18-2013 11:21 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier (Post 508791)
Jose Antonio Vargas is 32 years old. A dream act should only pass if it includes 'older' dreamers otherwise it is not a good deal.
I disagree, age cap shouldn't be the deal breaker.. What we need is a dream act that includes those who truly came here as children. 16 isn't a child. I think somewhere in the 10-14 age range would be good and no I'm not saying that because of my own interest cause I came here much younger than that, I just don't think deporting someone who came here at 16 back to their country of birth would have them lost like someone who came here at 10..

compedude29 08-19-2013 12:51 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyman0607 (Post 508805)
I disagree, age cap shouldn't be the deal breaker.. What we need is a dream act that includes those who truly came here as children. 16 isn't a child. I think somewhere in the 10-14 age range would be good and no I'm not saying that because of my own interest cause I came here much younger than that, I just don't think deporting someone who came here at 16 back to their country of birth would have them lost like someone who came here at 10..
I disagree with you and I came here at 6. You are being selfish by excluding the older dreamers and are speaking out of your own interest. Was it to you that they include the older dreamers?

DA User 08-19-2013 12:52 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier (Post 508791)
Jose Antonio Vargas is 32 years old. A dream act should only pass if it includes 'older' dreamers otherwise it is not a good deal.
Vargas is my favorite Dreamer. He is a legend. I salute him! I think he has a Bachelor's degree from UCLA right?

They could do the same requirements as DACA but also include 31+ Dreamers who already have a 4 year degree from the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyman0607 (Post 508805)
I disagree, age cap shouldn't be the deal breaker.. What we need is a dream act that includes those who truly came here as children. 16 isn't a child. I think somewhere in the 10-14 age range would be good and no I'm not saying that because of my own interest cause I came here much younger than that, I just don't think deporting someone who came here at 16 back to their country of birth would have them lost like someone who came here at 10..
In USA 17 and under is a minor.

Pianoswithoutfaith 08-19-2013 01:14 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
25 or under Da

IamAman 08-19-2013 01:45 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Sad part is someone who came here at 16 3 years ago will most likely qualify while someone like myself who came here 27 years ago at the age of 10 won't. I'm sure if that 19 year old could speak English, he'd tell me "what part of illegal don't you understand?" and "You should have found a way to get legal" after he gets his papers.

Really though, this whole fighting over who is the better Dreamer reminds me of the scene in Schinder's List where the wealthy Jews were moved into the ghetto and were still acting all superior to the other Jews because they could eat at the fancy restaurant, or some who were selected to have official jobs (ie. the Dreamers with DACA who think they somehow are better) while in reality they were all heading to the gas chambers (metaphorically in our case).

zone2oo0 08-19-2013 03:14 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAman (Post 508817)
Sad part is someone who came here at 16 3 years ago will most likely qualify while someone like myself who came here 27 years ago at the age of 10 won't. I'm sure if that 19 year old could speak English, he'd tell me "what part of illegal don't you understand?" and "You should have found a way to get legal" after he gets his papers.

Really though, this whole fighting over who is the better Dreamer reminds me of the scene in Schinder's List where the wealthy Jews were moved into the ghetto and were still acting all superior to the other Jews because they could eat at the fancy restaurant, or some who were selected to have official jobs (ie. the Dreamers with DACA who think they somehow are better) while in reality they were all heading to the gas chambers (metaphorically in our case).
That is the most inaccurate metaphor i have ever read. When was the last time you saw the movie? " because they could eat at the fancy restaurant" what fancy restaurant? wut... lol.. then the part about the gas chamber? LOL.. We're not better with DACA, after all this is just a reprieve from deportation, they have our names now and they can decide to go back on their word and request for all of us to go see an immigration judge. So no, we're not better than anybody. Age cap should be fair.. if you came here as a child.. then you qualify .. easy as pie. no matter how old you are. Now they should do extensive background checks and if you have 1 DUI, just 1 DUI you should be deported. I think that's how tough the Dream Act should be, no criminal history what so ever. Who cares about the age gap. GOP wants a tough bill, there it is. Focus on the criminals, and yes we are better than those criminals. once you're 10 year old you know the right from the wrong. i can't believe you used Jews to compare the DREAMERS LOL ..

IamAman 08-19-2013 09:13 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zone2oo0 (Post 508823)
That is the most inaccurate metaphor i have ever read. When was the last time you saw the movie? " because they could eat at the fancy restaurant" what fancy restaurant? wut... lol.. then the part about the gas chamber? LOL.. We're not better with DACA, after all this is just a reprieve from deportation, they have our names now and they can decide to go back on their word and request for all of us to go see an immigration judge. So no, we're not better than anybody. Age cap should be fair.. if you came here as a child.. then you qualify .. easy as pie. no matter how old you are. Now they should do extensive background checks and if you have 1 DUI, just 1 DUI you should be deported. I think that's how tough the Dream Act should be, no criminal history what so ever. Who cares about the age gap. GOP wants a tough bill, there it is. Focus on the criminals, and yes we are better than those criminals. once you're 10 year old you know the right from the wrong. i can't believe you used Jews to compare the DREAMERS LOL ..
You can make fun all you want, but comparisons of human suffering translate even if it's not directly. I've seen the movie several times. There was the part where he was hiding under the stage at the restaurant, the same restaurant where just days earlier the more wealthy Jews were acting snobby because they thought they were somehow immune to what awaited them. In the train station when the family is sitting with their luggage and a kid is selling candy, the father says something to the effect of "what does he think he's going to do with the money?".

But hey, that's neither here or there. I guess some day there will be a movie about Dreamers and the next group of poor bastards who are waiting for their relief can reference it and will be told "how dare you compare us to the Dreamers! " So far based on the brilliant judgment passed by the council of the Dream Act Forum, we can not ever compare ourselves with the struggles of the blacks nor the Jews.

You're also changing the subject from the age cap to criminal history. I and most people on here have no problem at all with excluding those with criminal backgrounds because those are personal choices. Getting old, like being brought here in the first place was not a personal choice so that's the issue.

You're also very wrong in not thinking DACA hasn't made you better. I have seen the tone of the conversations here change dramatically as soon as "the haves" started getting their DACA papers. All of a sudden I started hearing the same lines I was hearing the same Mitt Romney arguments from fellow dreamers about how this was our fault and how "well, I can support the age limit because *insert bullshit excuse to justify it*" .

Don't forget it was Antonio Vargas who had the balls to get out there and out himself when he had so much to lose.

frbc13 08-19-2013 10:29 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
^that's the pianist dammit. Not Schindler's list.

IamAman 08-19-2013 12:18 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frbc13 (Post 508852)
^that's the pianist dammit. Not Schindler's list.
Hrm...That is true. The Jews in Schindler's list had a harder time. Although they did have those rich ones trying to make a deal with Schindler early on while he was still in it for profit. Which one was the one where they had the dog on their vacation and then forgot the dog was still tied to the back and got pulled over?

zone2oo0 08-19-2013 02:11 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
wait so you confused the movies? LOL

Ma nigga.

yeah i've been typing the same way since i came on here man, i haven't changed a bit. If anything i have more compassion towards people who don't have it as good as i do, because lets face it even though i was (are) undocumented for the most part i am better off with just deferred action. I always frown upon people who try to cheat the system and who aren't doing what they're suppose to, which is why i would rather prefer this bill have a criminal penalty than the age cap, that way everybody who really wants to be here should be here. Why they didn't do that in the first place? i don't know. GOPers should stfu once something like that is brought up.

Happyman0607 08-19-2013 02:41 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zone2oo0 (Post 508823)
That is the most inaccurate metaphor i have ever read. When was the last time you saw the movie? " because they could eat at the fancy restaurant" what fancy restaurant? wut... lol.. then the part about the gas chamber? LOL.. We're not better with DACA, after all this is just a reprieve from deportation, they have our names now and they can decide to go back on their word and request for all of us to go see an immigration judge. So no, we're not better than anybody. Age cap should be fair.. if you came here as a child.. then you qualify .. easy as pie. no matter how old you are. Now they should do extensive background checks and if you have 1 DUI, just 1 DUI you should be deported. I think that's how tough the Dream Act should be, no criminal history what so ever. Who cares about the age gap. GOP wants a tough bill, there it is. Focus on the criminals, and yes we are better than those criminals. once you're 10 year old you know the right from the wrong. i can't believe you used Jews to compare the DREAMERS LOL ..
I disagree, the tea baggers don't want a tough bill. They want NO bill.. 25 and under passing this Tuesday I'm predicting it and I can't wait for it!!! Whatevuurrrr it takes!

IamAman 08-19-2013 04:49 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zone2oo0 (Post 508867)
wait so you confused the movies? LOL

Ma nigga.

yeah i've been typing the same way since i came on here man, i haven't changed a bit. If anything i have more compassion towards people who don't have it as good as i do, because lets face it even though i was (are) undocumented for the most part i am better off with just deferred action. I always frown upon people who try to cheat the system and who aren't doing what they're suppose to, which is why i would rather prefer this bill have a criminal penalty than the age cap, that way everybody who really wants to be here should be here. Why they didn't do that in the first place? i don't know. GOPers should stfu once something like that is brought up.
The Pianist is one of my favorite movies and to be honest, I had a bender this weekend (little mini pub crawl and got invited to an ex's birthday (the only ex I'm really civil to really because nobody got hurt) so I got the two movies twisted.

Pianoswithoutfaith 08-19-2013 05:30 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
the pianist was a masterpiece

zone2oo0 08-19-2013 06:51 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyman0607 (Post 508875)
I disagree, the tea baggers don't want a tough bill. They want NO bill.. 25 and under passing this Tuesday I'm predicting it and I can't wait for it!!! Whatevuurrrr it takes!
if they do pass a 25 and under bill i'm going DREAM9 up in here.

Rogue414 08-19-2013 06:53 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyman0607 (Post 508805)
I disagree, age cap shouldn't be the deal breaker.. What we need is a dream act that includes those who truly came here as children. 16 isn't a child. I think somewhere in the 10-14 age range would be good and no I'm not saying that because of my own interest cause I came here much younger than that, I just don't think deporting someone who came here at 16 back to their country of birth would have them lost like someone who came here at 10..
That's truly funny! I came here when I was 4 and I am 24 now, if I were to be excluded because I'm "too old" now that would make me really upset. Oh and technically you're still a minor till you turn 18.

FSL 08-19-2013 08:02 PM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAman (Post 508817)
Sad part is someone who came here at 16 3 years ago will most likely qualify while someone like myself who came here 27 years ago at the age of 10 won't. I'm sure if that 19 year old could speak English, he'd tell me "what part of illegal don't you understand?" and "You should have found a way to get legal" after he gets his papers.

Really though, this whole fighting over who is the better Dreamer reminds me of the scene in Schinder's List where the wealthy Jews were moved into the ghetto and were still acting all superior to the other Jews because they could eat at the fancy restaurant, or some who were selected to have official jobs (ie. the Dreamers with DACA who think they somehow are better) while in reality they were all heading to the gas chambers (metaphorically in our case).
Good analogy lol

Happyman0607 08-20-2013 10:24 AM
Re: Waiting on passage of DREAM Act is gambling with the nation's soul
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue414 (Post 508910)
That's truly funny! I came here when I was 4 and I am 24 now, if I were to be excluded because I'm "too old" now that would make me really upset. Oh and technically you're still a minor till you turn 18.
What difference does it make if you're still a minor under 18? The whole point of daca is supposed to be if these kids were to get deported they'd be lost in their country of birth.. If you deport Jose who lived in Mexico till he was 16 and has been here for 5 years chances are he can speak, write and give you a your around Mexico so if he was to get deported he'll be fine. But if you deport a 35 year old who came here when he was 5 he's gonna be lost.. My point is it's better to have a lower age(10-14) and no age cap


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