Freedom Caucus offer
 

NEW: A HFC member offered (yesterda) as a compromise a NEW visa program for DACA recipients that leads to a path to citizenship. Member says it's a "bridge" to the legal immigration system per sources.

I'm told moderates are willing to accept if it's a real offer.

https://twitter.com/lacaldwelldc/sta...986457600?s=21

.@RepMarkMeadows just said there is “no deal.”

He chuckled when asked about this tweet.

https://twitter.com/taragolshan/stat...423288320?s=21

He will not confirm or deny that there is an offer out to moderates.

Meadows says he is not negotiating policy with the press.

https://twitter.com/taragolshan/stat...871670785?s=21

There is a ridiculous debate happening right now about whether or not conservatives offered moderates a special deal and whether that deal is a “bridge” or “path” for DACA recipients.

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Nice.

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I think many DREAMERs would be screwed because of dumb inadmissibity sections in 212

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Did you read the bill?

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So is there a deal or not?

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Much larger number than the currently enrolled in daca.
YAASSSS

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Guess not? As expected of the HFC.

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vis @pdmcleod

Moderate leader Jeff Denham says Republicans have pulled off the improbable and reached a tentative immigration deal. Per Deham it includes:

- 8-year citizenship path for DREAMers

- This will apply to "a much larger number" than the 700,000 formally enrolled in the program...

- DREAMers can enroll in the military to get citizenship faster than 8 years.

- These Visa spots will not be new. Will come from "combining" other Visa programs (sounds like they'll take them from the diversity Visa program but this is not confirmed)...

The bizarre catch here is that Denham says this deal was offered by the Freedom Caucus and accepted by moderates. Freedom Caucus chair Mark Meadows told us there was no offer or deal. Soooooo...

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So who is lying and who is telling the truth?

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Cut chain migration and give the spots for dreamers!

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preach.

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Filter all the bad hombres out, if you miss court date, you are OUT of here

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Yes!!! Stop chain migration of cousins and distant relatives!!

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But that's not how it works at all, you know that right?

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Chain migration of cousins? where do you get this BS??

Again either you have no fucken clue, or you are spreading propaganda.

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Its 2face, in other posts, he praising Trump for saving DACA

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Versailles too. He’s also spreading the bullshit about sponsoring cousins.

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They’re both right wing apologists

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Take all this with a grain of salt. Chances are we'll be right back here in 2 weeks saying the same bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I want this to happen just as bad as the next dreamer, but history continues to repeat itself. Also we have an orange baboon as president... soo.... yeah.

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Emo. AF.

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Naw mane, just being real.

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nope, ive never praised trump for ending daca.
and oh my fucking god, how many fucking times do i have to show you all examples and proof of what they mean by chain migration.
its real, get over it.

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A 40 year path to citizenship is too long to be a widespread problem. There are better countries with easier immigration systems that people would gravitate towards because they wouldn’t be willing to wait that long.

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irrelevant.
you guys are saying it's not real and doesn't happen, both of which are obvious lies. that you personally don't see anything wrong with it doesn't change it's effects.

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Enlighten us on these so called effects.

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do things have to be spelled out for you if they don't fall into your political bias or something.

the introduction of people with no ties, virtually no intent on creating ties with the country past a superficial level, is something most of america doesn't agree with.
this comes into play with DACA because we are a preferable group to prioritize instead of chain migration beneficiaries.
you can chose to call it "family reunification" but it still doesn't change the facts that it allows to bring in too many extended family members.

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Well no. Iamaman and I demonstrated that it takes an obscene amount of time for a cousin of a citizen to become a citizen. I argued that it’s unlikely that someone is willing to wait almost 35 years just to immigrate to America. This time likely weeds out people who don’t care enough about America to go to another country with more lax immigration policies. I argued it with math and the fact that long lines are far from optimal, not with a political bias.

On the other hand, you are attempting to assume the motives of everyone entering based on family reunification. To you, every single immigrant coming through family reunification has no ties (they do because they have family in America) and has no interest in creating more ties and becoming American. According to you, a person who isn’t highly educated/skilled or did not come to the US as an undocumented immigrant child has no interest in being American. That’s very ignorant and self serving and I don’t think there is much of a difference between you and the xenophobic people who think we don’t want to become American (think “you should’ve applied for citizenship already” type of people).

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that is not an argument on why it's not a problem...
we give out well over hundreds of thousands of green cards based on "family reunification" that extends beyond the mother and father and children of the original sponsor, and you expect me to believe, that every single one of those people assimilate into the country? when they're barely learning the language as they get here?
people that are way older than anyone of us here?

you are being biased because you refuse to recognize that there is a problem with it by saying "well it's unlikely to keep happening". your definition of when we can finally say okay, this is a problem, likely doesn't exist, because you reject the idea that there could be a problem with the kind of immigration we currently have.
if it was up to you, we'd have even more immigration, so yes, that is biased because you'r ignoring the reality of this country's problem based on your political bias.
where in my post did is say everyone, and every immigrant.
enough of them do feel that way, where we have this problem.

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Well you are attacking family reunification and in order to justify it, you tirade that they don’t want to assimilate/create ties. I’m refuting that because only people who are absolutely committed to America would wait 35 years to immigrate to America.

You don’t understand the rules of discourse. If you want to be taken seriously when you claim that family reunification is detrimental to America, then you’re going to have to use evidence to prove that it indeed is a problem. You have the burden of proof here since you’re making the claim, not me. I’m not required to see it as a problem a priori. From my vantage point, your views on immigration stem from nothing but your political views—a source that represent a privileging of emotion and passion over reason.

If there’s a problem with family reunification, make a convincing argument grounded in evidence and if you’re convincing, I’ll change my mind.

I’m giving you a chance. If you squander it, I will continue to see your views as hypocritical and deliberately misleading. If you provide citations convincing evidence to support your claims, I’m willing to be moved.

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Pretty snowflakey to be triggered by Versailles views. You are free to ignore them dude.

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your refutation is irrelevant to what i'm trying to get you to understand and my point in all of this.
how is the fact that it's hard for them to become citizens stop the GC status that is granted to millions?

there is no burden of proof for me when i have summed it up for you in as basic of a way as i can. you refuse to understand that there even is a problem with chain migration.

i didn't say "family reunification" is detrimental, i said chain migration and i've been pretty clear what people mean when they say that.

this is your problem with things, you want to reframe the issue as a moral stance and change the meaning of what i'm trying to say.

this is what i'm saying: chain migration is a real problem that americans don't like, we should prioritize people like DACA'ers who are virtually assimilated over people from other countries that are often way older than most of us and are disadvantaged at ever assimilating.

this is how you try and reframe the discussion: "well it's not chain migration it's family reunification, what are you, against families?"

if you can't understand the basic fundamental problem with bringing millions of people over the years with virtually no ties to this country, limited prospects, and in some cases vastly different cultural norms and values to us, than no amount of evidence i can show you, will ever change your ardent support for more and more immigration.

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Why do you have such a problem with my term? You’ve prescribed a moralistic meaning to family reunification but my arguments are not moralistic. I’m saying that only people absolutely committed to being American are willing to wait in line for 35 years. There’s nothing moralistic about that. It’s economic. You must wait in line for 35 years and in exchange, you can eventually enjoy the benefits and responsibilities of being an American. The moralistic argument that you’re crusading against is a straw man in the context of our conversation.

Now your assertion about assimilation: what is the cutoff age for someone to be assimilated? Because there isn’t much of a difference between DACA recipients like you and me and a person who comes through the family reunification program. The main difference is the age. What age creates a border between a “well assimilated” person and someone who isn’t well assimilated? Is age even good criterion to use?

I can’t understand “the problem” because I care about empirical facts. A century ago, plenty of immigrants from countries with no ties to the US came over through Ellis Island from countries in Eastern and Southern Europe. I don’t see the harm they committed to the US. Enlighten me on the harm that they created.

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I’m not triggered by them. I strongly disagree with them. But he has a right to say them and I have a right to voice my disagreement. Unlike you, Versailles isn’t a snowflake about speech. To my knowledge, he hasn’t told anyone to keep their thoughts private. He embraces free discourse (even if his views and arguments are totally off).

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there you go again, you misrepresent what i say
where in my posts did i bring up those immigrants, this is a bad analogy. they aren't comparable at all to our situation now or the situations that people who come here from chain migration find themselves in.

from your responses you clearly just kind of want to skirt around issues instead of trying to understand a different viewpoint of this situation.
there is obviously differences between DACA'ers and people that come through family reunification, aside from just age.
but someone who is 30+ is going to have a much harder time assimilating to the country they move to as opposed to a childhood arrival.
this isn't even bringing into play the overall differing values of countries and parallel societies you'd run into with an endless supply of these people coming into the country.

i'll ask you again because you keep ignoring the point i have kept reiterating to you multiple times, and we're clearly not going to get anywhere like this.

do you or do you not see the problems with bringing in millions of people based on flimsy laws that allow people in beyond the scope of what is intended.
if chain migration isn't a problem, why is there such an obsession with it being a non-starter in immigration talks.

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You didn’t bring them up. I did. They are a group of immigrants who were undeducated, unassimilated adults. Yet in my calculation, they didn’t seem to harm the country. The people coming in through family reunification are similar in their background and I haven’t seen them harm American society.

In the past, an endless supply of immigrants came from different countries with differing values. Did that cause lasting problems on America then. Today, there are even more countries represented but today, there aren’t open borders. Do the immigrants from the newly represented non European countries have values that are radically less aligned with American values than the values of European immigrants of the past?


But enough of this. Let’s get down to the nitty gritty. Correct me if I’m wrong. You seem to be saying that people who come here through family reunification will have a harder time assimilating. That seems reasonable. However, I’m having a hard time understanding how this will have a long term negative impact on society. Because even though we may have to use some of our resources to help assimilate them, we will also have a productive person who has had their educational experiences as well as their developmental stage paid for by a foreign government. And because of this, I believe that immigrants, even adult ones with limited skill, can still be useful to America.


I want to answer your question. However, I don’t know why the laws are “flimsy” and I don’t understand how one can understand the level of immigration “that was intended”.