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-   -   Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever (http://dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?t=83032)

vft1008 12-19-2018 01:48 PM

Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/polit...all/index.html
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large
Updated 10:47 AM ET, Wed December 19, 2018

Eight days ago, President Donald Trump had this to say about the possibility of a government shutdown if Congress didn't give him $5 billion to begin construction on his border wall:
"I tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So, I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting down and I'm going to shut it down for border security."

https://i.imgur.com/ojtiInE.jpg?1

On Wednesday morning, White House senior counselor Kellyanne Conway sounded a very different note, suggesting that if Congress passed a short-term resolution to keep the government open then Trump would "take a look at that certainly." Added Conway: "A short term [continuing resolution] -- or a CR that goes through February 8 keeps the government up and running but that doesn't mean the President is backing down from an essential promise, not a campaign promise, a promise as President of the United States and our commander in chief to keep us safe."

Uh.......

Trump himself sounded a similarly defensive -- and nonsensical -- note in a tweet on Wednesday. "Mexico is paying (indirectly) for the Wall through the new USMCA, the replacement for NAFTA!" tweeted the President. "Far more money coming to the U.S. Because of the tremendous dangers at the Border, including large scale criminal and drug inflow, the United States Military will build the Wall!"
This is a classic case of overcompensation.

In order to convince you -- and themselves -- that Trump's willingness to sign a short-term continuing resolution to avoid a government shutdown isn't a capitulation of his former tough talk about doing whatever it takes to get funding for the border wall, both the President and Conway are suggesting that who you see and what you hear isn't actually true.

Trump is going to get the wall money! And no matter what, Mexico is going to pay for it! Somehow!
At the moment, neither of those things are true. The truth? Trump made a promise -- and kept reiterating a promise -- he is now going back on.

And his backing down this time has real consequences. Remember that Democrats take control of the House come January. Which means that the next time we have a government funding fight like this, it will be with divided government. And it's VERY hard to see how Trump will get the $5 billion+ he wants for a border wall with Democrats in charge in the House. Heck, he hasn't been able to get the money he wanted for the wall over the last two years, with Republicans in charge of everything!

Go back to the spring. Congress was, yet again, bumping up against a hard deadline to either fund the government or have it shut down. Trump had pledged to sign no new omnibus spending bill that didn't include substantial funding for his border wall. Even after the legislation had been largely agreed to by Congress -- without the expenditure Trump wanted for the wall -- he threatened to veto it via tweet.
"I am considering a VETO of the Omnibus Spending Bill based on the fact that the 800,000 plus DACA recipients have been totally abandoned by the Democrats (not even mentioned in Bill) and the BORDER WALL, which is desperately needed for our National Defense, is not fully funded," he wrote.

That turned out to be an empty threat -- as Trump eventually signed the omnibus bill. But when he did so, he issued another threat for the next shutdown showdown to come in the fall.

"I say to Congress: I will never sign another bill like this again," Trump said at the time. "Nobody read it. It's only hours old. ... (It's) the second-largest ever. President Obama signed one that was actually larger, which I'm sure he wasn't too happy with either."

In the run-up to this latest deadline, which was initially December 7 before Congress -- wait for it -- passed a two-week extension, Trump and Republican congressional leaders were resolute that either Trump got the money he wanted for the wall or the government shut down.

"I am firm" on the necessity of securing the wall funding, Trump told Politico in an interview late last month. He noted:
"I don't do anything ... just for political gain. But I will tell you, politically speaking, that issue is a total winner. People look at the border, they look at the rush to the police, they look at the rock throwers and really hurting three people, three very brave Border Patrol folks — I think that it's a tremendous issue, but much more importantly, is really needed. So we have to have border security."

And yet, as the deadline -- midnight Friday -- approaches, Trump appears to be ready to blink. Again.
Which is fascinating given not just his rhetoric over the last few months on the necessity of the wall but how central the construction of the wall was to his victory in the Republican presidential primary process in 2016.

Without his promise to build a wall along the country's southern border -- and make Mexico pay for it -- there likely would never have been a "President Donald Trump." The wall became a stand-in for everything Trump supporters loved about him: A willingness to talk tough, to buck political correctness and to stand up for Americans. Aside from the "lock her up" chants directed at Hillary Clinton, the "build that wall" cheer was the largest and loudest rallying cry at nearly every Trump campaign rally in 2016.

And now, almost certainly, Trump will, again, go back on that pledge. Despite insisting that after the last time he went back on the pledge he would never do it again.

Whoops!

Does Trump's likely (re)capitulation on wall funding have any measurable political impact among his political base? The easy answer is "no" -- because, as the last two years have shown, almost nothing has any measurable political impact on Trump's base. They appear to be with him no matter what, entirely unaffected by outside events.

If -- and this is a big and shaky "if" -- there ever was an issue that made Trump's base (or a part of it) rethink its support for him, the inability of the President to wring the money needed for the wall out of Congress might be it. It is a foundational principle of Trumpism that Trump just keeps doing very un-Trump things about: Like giving in. Again. And this time with the real possibility that there will never be as good a chance to get even close to the amount of money out of Congress that Trump insists is necessary to build the wall.

I really hope the worst happens to this orange man.

Alfredo93 12-19-2018 01:54 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
My thing is; Trump wants it so bad, Democrats know he would accept a DACA resolution for the wall. Why don’t Democrats give him the wall in exchange for DACA? How is that so hard

vft1008 12-19-2018 01:58 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Because when it comes time for the presidential election:

Trump wall victory>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dems working with the Trump admin to bring relief to Dreamers

MIdreamer 12-19-2018 02:34 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
He should have taken the $25B + DACA deal when it was offered, but he got greedy and wanted the 4 pillars on top of the $25B, what a dumb ass.

jwxie518 12-19-2018 02:44 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
game over. bye.

tabi 12-19-2018 02:47 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfredo93 (Post 723744)
My thing is; Trump wants it so bad, Democrats know he would accept a DACA resolution for the wall. Why don’t Democrats give him the wall in exchange for DACA? How is that so hard

I understand someone who doesn't keep up with daca news saying this but people on here should know this. trump already had the chance. He wanted more than just the wall.

Alfredo93 12-19-2018 02:58 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tabi (Post 723749)
I understand someone who doesn't keep up with daca news saying this but people on here should know this. trump already had the chance. He wanted more than just the wall.

I think Dems had low balled him then and everyone was pissed at the DEMS for insulting Trump with such a low figure.

I think now more than ever Dems have to make that offer again. The amount he’s asking for won’t even complete the whole thing.

desice 12-19-2018 03:06 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Donald and republicans move the goal posts every time Dems play ball or make a concession. Y’all Patty Hearst fuckboys need to wake up. tfoh

Got_Daca 12-19-2018 03:10 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
No wall for Trump means no GC for dacas

Thanks Dems!

JohannBernoulli1667 12-19-2018 03:43 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
You guys are delusional if you think Trump actually wants a wall. His wall is the base of his political success. If he gets it, what will he run on next?

Alby 12-19-2018 03:53 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohannBernoulli1667 (Post 723754)
You guys are delusional if you think Trump actually wants a wall. His wall is the base of his political success. If he gets it, what will he run on next?

On accomplishing and delivering things?

cpasd 12-19-2018 03:54 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
[quote=Got_Daca;723752]No wall for Trump means no GC for dacas

Thanks Dems![/QUOTE

So it's the Dems fault? You're a joke

JohannBernoulli1667 12-19-2018 04:15 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alby (Post 723755)
On accomplishing and delivering things?

The problem is that it does not work. People have short attention spans... No one will remember it a week after the wall is done.

Plus it would look retarded once they realize walls don't work

IamAman 12-19-2018 04:27 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohannBernoulli1667 (Post 723758)
The problem is that it does not work. People have short attention spans... No one will remember it a week after the wall is done.

Plus it would look retarded once they realize walls don't work

They have a short attention span as long as their bellies are full. If the economy is well, they will not care at all that they wasted money on the wall. If they're hungry and see the wall did nothing, then they MIGHT take the blinders off. Judging by how the stock market has been going down steadily for the last few months, that's a possibility.

MIdreamer 12-19-2018 04:37 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfredo93 (Post 723750)
I think Dems had low balled him then and everyone was pissed at the DEMS for insulting Trump with such a low figure.

I think now more than ever Dems have to make that offer again. The amount he’s asking for won’t even complete the whole thing.

Dems didn't low ball Trump. They offered $25 Billion , the exact amount Trump asked for and he agreed to the deal, then change his mind the next day. He is only asking for $5 Billion now, so $25 Billion was not a low ball offer at all.

jorgeag92 12-19-2018 05:16 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
The govt will be funded until Feb 9. That will be our only and last chance to get immigration relief passed. The only thing that can possibly stand in its way is Obamacare which was recently ruled unconstitutional, so negotiation might change from wall in exchange for daca to wall in exchange for healthcare.

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-19-2018 06:00 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfredo93 (Post 723750)
I think Dems had low balled him then and everyone was pissed at the DEMS for insulting Trump with such a low figure.

I think now more than ever Dems have to make that offer again. The amount he’s asking for won’t even complete the whole thing.

No they didn’t

In September 2017 they offered him 25B and DACA, not even green cards but for daca to be law. He said he was on board and both side were happy. Then the next day comes saying he never agreed to anything and now wants 4 Pillars

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-19-2018 06:01 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
[quote=cpasd;723756]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Got_Daca (Post 723752)
No wall for Trump means no GC for dacas

Thanks Dems![/QUOTE

So it's the Dems fault? You're a joke

A lot of users here think they’re being cool and edgy but blaming this on the democrats. One of them is just an idiot

LiveYourLife 12-19-2018 07:27 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith (Post 723764)
No they didn’t

In September 2017 they offered him 25B and DACA, not even green cards but for daca to be law. He said he was on board and both side were happy. Then the next day comes saying he never agreed to anything and now wants 4 Pillars

Came in to post this. This happened before the infamous January 2018 meeting. If anything Miller and friends tried to lowball. Some people here are either delusional, misinformed, or just trolling.

vft1008 12-19-2018 07:40 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveYourLife (Post 723767)
Came in to post this. This happened before the infamous January 2018 meeting. If anything Miller and friends tried to lowball. Some people here are either delusional, misinformed, or just trolling.

A lot of people on forum are idiots, but more than willing to share their opinions and analysis, lol.

Got_Daca 12-19-2018 07:55 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveYourLife (Post 723767)
Came in to post this. This happened before the infamous January 2018 meeting. If anything Miller and friends tried to lowball. Some people here are either delusional, misinformed, or just trolling.

Cuck and Nancy celebrated too early

Cuck and Nancy never actually wanted a deal

They wanted to humiliate Trump

Now Cuck and Nancy have chance they wont budge

Dreamer1980 12-19-2018 08:01 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by desice (Post 723751)
Donald and republicans move the goal posts every time Dems play ball or make a concession. Y’all Patty Hearst fuckboys need to wake up. tfoh

That's the true, orange now orange turd has now wall, no Trump foundation... I hope he ends in jail.

jwxie518 12-19-2018 08:03 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer1980 (Post 723770)
That's the true, orange now orange turd has now wall, no Trump foundation... I hope he ends in jail.

If he signs a daca fix with travel, I will call him a savior. Whatever.

BestBefore1984 12-19-2018 08:09 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Fuck. That bitch is ugly.

vft1008 12-19-2018 08:12 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BestBefore1984 (Post 723773)
Fuck. That bitch is ugly.

https://i.imgur.com/U99w9Yq.jpg?1

Smooth 12-19-2018 08:34 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
@ChadPergram

Freedom Caucus Ldr Meadows says the “political fallout” of Trump signing a spending bill without a wall “will start Saturday.” Says if Trump signs the bill there will be “major damage” to his re-election in 2020

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/stat...49527241838592

Smooth 12-19-2018 08:35 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth (Post 723775)
@ChadPergram

Freedom Caucus Ldr Meadows says the “political fallout” of Trump signing a spending bill without a wall “will start Saturday.” Says if Trump signs the bill there will be “major damage” to his re-election in 2020

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/stat...49527241838592

@ChadPergram

“Meadows says Trump should veto the spending bill. Says Hse should have voted on border wall pkg last wk. Says “the mistake was that we didn’t bring up the bill last week when we had the votes””

2Face 12-19-2018 08:36 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
They really should have taken that $25B + Dreamer legalization compromise. Trump was very weak to have surrendered to his loser friends like Miller. Now I bet you he must be regretting that. He needs to fire Miller and stop listening to the fucktards at Breitbart.

Smooth 12-19-2018 08:38 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Face (Post 723777)
They really should have taken that $25B + Dreamer legalization compromise. Trump was very weak to have surrendered to his loser friends like Miller. Now I bet you he must be regretting that. He needs to fire Miller and stop listening to the fucktards at Breitbart.

Yeah those dip shits fucked him over.

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-19-2018 08:50 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Imagine had he taken the deal

We all be talking about getting our green cards

Trump would be trying to take by force all that privately owned land, years of legislative work but hey hey would have gotten something


Now


He gets nothing at all and daca is as strong as ever

JohannBernoulli1667 12-19-2018 08:51 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Meadows is an A class moron. I hope they start attacking Trump, let the in fighting begin.

2Face 12-19-2018 08:57 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith (Post 723779)
Imagine had he taken the deal

We all be talking about getting our green cards

Trump would be trying to take by force all that privately owned land, years of legislative work but hey hey would have gotten something


Now


He gets nothing at all and daca is as strong as ever

Oh its not over yet. We are getting our Dream Act passed very soon and you will be there to celebrate that moment with us.

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-19-2018 08:58 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Well we will see after the congress ruling. We have some idiot saying daca is unconstitutional here

jwxie518 12-19-2018 09:06 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Face (Post 723781)
Oh its not over yet. We are getting our Dream Act passed very soon and you will be there to celebrate that moment with us.

My friend, fuck it. Senate ain’t touching it.

Smooth 12-19-2018 09:07 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith (Post 723779)
Imagine had he taken the deal

We all be talking about getting our green cards

Trump would be trying to take by force all that privately owned land, years of legislative work but hey hey would have gotten something


Now


He gets nothing at all and daca is as strong as ever

Actually, we would have been legalized and citizens who have properties at the border would have obstructed the construction of the wall through law suits. As is, the US gov struggles to build fencing on certain properties because of lawsuits.

Smooth 12-19-2018 09:09 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohannBernoulli1667 (Post 723780)
Meadows is an A class moron. I hope they start attacking Trump, let the in fighting begin.

People like Miller and Meadows are part of the reason Trump got too greedy and demanded too much at the start of the year. They are part of the reason he is in this shit hole.

Smooth 12-19-2018 09:11 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
That's what the orange fucking moron gets for listening to the far right ideologues of the republican party, listening to a limp dick squidword looking motherfucker who uses spray-on hair.

JayR9 12-19-2018 09:13 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MIdreamer (Post 723746)
He should have taken the $25B + DACA deal when it was offered, but he got greedy and wanted the 4 pillars on top of the $25B, what a dumb ass.

Yep, he had bone in mouth disease - Mr. Wonderful

Pianoswithoutfaith 12-19-2018 09:14 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Democrats were at his mercy but then he got too greedy wanted more.

Now that democrats have some leverage over the house it’s over for him and his wall. 2020 campaign will be all about the wall and him blaming the democrats for not giving him the original 15b he asked for. Oh but wait where were Republicans to give him wall money

Smooth 12-19-2018 09:17 PM

Re: Donald Trump's border wall may have just crumbled forever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith (Post 723788)
Democrats were at his mercy but then he got too greedy wanted more.

Now that democrats have some leverage over the house it’s over for him and his wall. 2020 campaign will be all about the wall and him blaming the democrats for not giving him the original 15b he asked for. Oh but wait where were Republicans to give him wall money

Our EADs will also begin to expire. We will be used for the 2020 election dude. Unless a miracle happens, DACA is not going to survive under Trump, so I really do not understand why you say DACA is stronger than ever. It is facing some serious fucking threats.


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