Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough
Dreamers don't seem to understand our compassion for kids does not extend to adults who willfully flout our laws. I don't fault you for living in my country illegally. You had no choice. However, rather than showing even a modicum of appreciation for the opportunities afforded by DACA, you are now arrogantly DEMANDING your parents receive the same.
You may not realize, the more demands you make, the more support you'll lose. Citizens are becoming annoyed by your sense of entitlement. We are a very generous nation; and most feel compassion for innocent children. However, despite the fact that it was not your decision to violate our laws, this country "owes" you nothing.
We certainly don't owe your parents legalization. Nor should people be rewarded simply because they gave birth while living here illegally.
Moreover, millions are waiting to enter this country through legal channels. Millions more, such as my husband, played by the rules, jumped through numerous hoops, and waited for approval to gain legal entry. It is a huge slap in the face of every legal immigrant for millions to be rewarded for violating the law. Can you honestly not empathize with them?
There's a limit to everything, including generosity and compassion. No one enjoys being used. My country is being used to the max. Thousands continue to stream across the southern border with absolute impunity. The U.S. has become a free-for-all, and the laughingstock of the world. We have no idea who is entering illegally.
At the very least, this is a national security issue. The majority of illegal border-crossers are adults, not toddlers holding blankies. Yet, the mere mention of securing the border is met with baseless accusations of racism. A country that does not protect its sovereignty will cease to be a country.
Bottom Line: You are digging your own grave. Gratitude and humility are far more appealing than arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Again, despite Obama's promises, the United States of America owes you NOTHING. I am sure a simple "thank you" on occasion would be appreciated by the kind citizens of this country.
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Personally, while I agree that the way Dreamer protestors are handling this is all kinds of wrong and may create backlash, I always wonder why people talk about illegal immigration as national security issue when I have yet to see an illegal immigrant actually commit some act of terror similar to Hamas, Al Qaeda, and even the individual acts such as the Boston Marathon bombing (and that person had a green card).
Really, terrorism is well-funded and the money runs incredibly deep. You can buy your way into the U.S on a tourist visa, you can enter the U.S on a student visa with a college acceptance letter, you can get a visa for starting a business in the U.S that employs Americans. 9/11 happened and wouldn't have been stopped if the border was secure because the terrorists weren't going to enter via the border. Entering from the border is dangerous. You can get killed, eaten alive, and raped. Ain't no way a terrorist is going to go through all of that just to bomb the U.S when there are other ways.
Also, I understand why people are going to protest so that their parents can also live here. To you, they are criminals. To them, they are the people who loved them and took care of them. However angry I used to get at my mom, she did the best that she could and while she didn't know the implications of her actions (because most people aren't that knowledgeable about immigration in the first place), I wouldn't turn my back on her either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough
You have made quite a few assumptions. First and foremost, I have no criminal record. I have never committed a federal offense, or a crime under any jurisdiction. Why would you assume I am a criminal? However, if I were, it would be irrelevant. Or, are you suggesting we should condone illegal immigration simply because we have citizen scofflaws?
Furthermore, had I committed a federal crime, if caught, I would expect punishment. Actions have consequences. If I committed ID theft, fraud, or tax evasion (all federal offenses), as an adult of sound mind, I realize if caught, I will be arrested and prosecuted. If convicted, I will serve time in a federal penitentiary. It's just that simple.
Millions of U.S. citizens are incarcerated; because, in this country, adults are held accountable for violating the law. Are you suggesting we should exempt illegal aliens? Should they be absolved, while citizens are punished? I'm not sure I am following your train of thought. Perhaps you will expound.
I did not mention Birthright Citizenship, crimes committed by illegal aliens, assimilation, contributions, taxes, jobs, or corporations. They are not germane to the topic of this thread. You replied to my initial post on this forum. You have no knowledge of my stance on those issues. Why would you presume to know my opinion?
The U.S. welcomes more legal immigrants than all other countries combined. We have a very generous policy. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely! But, if it were impossible to enter this country through legal channels, please explain how 40 % of illegal aliens are visa overstays. They were issued visas. However, they chose to ignore the terms. That was their decision. If the terms required leaving after a specified period, and the visa holder chose to stay, that is their fault, not the U.S. government. This country is under no obligation to extend visas or grant foreign nationals permission to stay.
Millions chose to enter without inspection. Again, that was their decision. They knew they entered in violation of U.S. immigration laws. They didn't care. Why should they be rewarded with legalization? How does rewarding lawlessness benefit a country?
Amnesty was granted to 3 million in 1986. Citizens were given the same promises we hear today. Then, as now, we were told with the passage of that law, immigration would be strictly enforced, employers would face steep penalties, and the borders would be secured. Ted Kennedy gave a passionate speech, in which he stated resolutely, that would be the LAST time we would need to address the issue of illegal immigration. U.S. immigration laws aren't broken. They are simply not enforced.
Otherwise, we would not have untold millions living here illegally.
Now, rather than 3 million, we have 11+ million. Actually, no one knows the true number. Why should any citizen believe CIR would be enforced, given the abysmal failure of the current law? How many times should citizens fall for this ruse?
As a sovereign nation, we are entitled to dictate the terms of our immigration policies. Some applicants are approved, while others are denied. That is our prerogative. Immigration policies should benefit this country. We have no legal or moral obligation to fulfill the aspirations of foreign nationals. Nor are we here to accommodate the impoverished of the world.
Black Americans did not enter another country illegally to flee from oppressive Jim Crow laws. They didn't feel entitled to demand acceptance, legalization, and a path to citizenship in a foreign land. No, they remained in THEIR country and fought and died for their rights. I fail to understand why illegal aliens cannot do the same in their countries of origin.
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In regards to visa overstayers, immigration law is onerous and time consuming if one wishes to live or work here. Depending on the visa class and type, there is no practical way to adjust to a green card/permanent residency unless one has a knowledgeable immigration attorney (through their company, paid for by their savings) or they received a green card through a lottery. What typically happens is that an immigration attorney takes on many cases and does not send documents within the USCIS stipulated time frame. Many of the petitions and processes have such a large backlog (years even) that the applicant may have moved, a document may need to be resent, or the immigration firm is no longer operating.
I remember one person who had a green card, had sent in an address request change to USCIS as soon as he landed in NYC (confirmed on a USCIS document), and USCIS still mailed his greencard to the old address so now he has to find the money (but meanwhile can't legally work because he needs to show a green card and USCIS has stopped issuing temporary I-551's) to get a new greencard. He technically still has permanent residency, but for those who are coming in to this country, "following USCIS rules" is not so simple and is not simply due to that person's error.
I know another person who came in on a visa that no longer exists (USCIS stopped issuing the visa in 2003/2004) and there aren't that many attorneys who are knowledgeable about how he could obtain legal status through that type since it's not common.
And this is dealing with people who have knowledgeable attorneys. We haven't begun to think about people who have spent money for attorneys who blatantly lie and take advantage of immigrants who want to do the right thing and become legal.
Since you mentioned petitioning your husband as you are a U.S citizen, that is one of the more simpler/easier petition processes a person can do to become legal. While there are hoops to prove that this is a bonafide marriage, it normally takes around a year from start to finish. In fact, practically all visa overstayers could marry a U.S citizen and adjust their status that way but many choose not to because that's committing fraud. As much as people talk about criminals, this is one thing that would be a no-brainer for any smart criminal to do.
However, most people are seeking proper means of correcting their status, not knowing that falling out of status means that there is no way for them to actually adjust their status. And if you are advised by the wrong attorney after spending $$$$? Good luck.
As to those who enter without inspection, many people are desperate and they come in to the country to help their families. As mentioned by another poster, NAFTA decimated Mexico. The geopolitical nature of immigration is that you can't separate immigration from world issues. This is why we had waves of Jewish, Irish, and Italian immigrants coming into the U.S within the 1900s. Mexico has ALWAYS been a border country of the U.S and only within the last two decades (which coincide with NAFTA) have we seen a dramatic rise in Mexicans crossing the border. Interestingly, though the U.S presents itself as a sovereign nation, its foreign policy over the years reflects less isolationism and more pulling its political weight and influence for its own advancement. Meanwhile, countries deal with the aftermath and the U.S says "it's not us, it's you."
Anyway, after Reagan's amnesty program and NAFTA, you have the Clinton administration passing the 10 year ban which effectively meant that for immigrants who came here illegally or overstay their visa, even if they return back to their home country, they are banned for 10 years from re-entering (legal petition and otherwise). As a result, many people stay rather than take their chances. Personally, I believe that if Clinton hadn't done that, we wouldn't see the estimated 11 million today.
Furthermore, I don't have the numbers, but I believe that if we looked at countries of the 3 million who received amnesty from Reagan, it would include Mexico, but not to the degree that people would expect for a border country (or even reflected by the numbers now). The reality is that the people who are coming in through the border NOW are immediately working and sending money back home. Many countries around the world have remittances as a sizeable amount of their GDP.
Which is why it is curious that people are framing the debate about citizenship when it's really about work. People want a greencard so that they can go home to their families as they wish, but if you have a travel visa and a work card... Most people would take it.
I don't understand why Black American history was brought into this, because as I see it, while you do have refugees from civil wars receiving asylum from many countries, the majority of foreign nationals who are entering are not fleeing a similar set of oppressive laws such as Jim Crow in their home country nor are they a persecuted minority. The ebb and flow mirrors the economy of their home countries.
I've argued on this board before that I do not and will not compare the black civil rights movement or even the gay civil rights movement to the immigration reform movement because there are few and far similarities.