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Originally Posted by applebees121
We're not going to change either one's mind, so this will be my last post regardless of how you respond.
The difference between amnesty back in 86 and now would be that Reagan didn't care for the border, just simply giving illegals another chance. Obama under his administration has deported more illegals than George Bush did (who was also relatively sympathetic to the illegals) or any other president for that matter. Yet no conservative seem to want to acknowledge this. Obama would obviously be looking to secure the border more under CIR. CIR isn't just giving illegals another chance. It's about closing the border, and making the immigration process more tight and tidy. Would it be the perfect solution? Who is to say, but at least it's geared toward fixing a problem and going on the right direction, which the Republican base either doesn't seem to want to do or going about it completely wrong.
And you're bordering (pun, get it?) on hyperbole with the 20+ million illegals. At most it appears to be about 12 million, with range between 8-12 million. U.S.'s population is 300+ million, meaning illegals make up of less than 5% (I didn't do the specific math but should be less than 5%). That's a very small group of people to accuse of saying "they're part of the problem with our economy and reason why our national debt is in the trillions".
Even if they are, your claims of illegals being a burden on taxpayer money is hypocritical. So if you have problems with children using American education, school lunch, whatever healthcare issue you appear to be misinformed about. Here's a simple solution: Let them able to work legally and give them a chance to pay back through taxes. Other than income taxes, illegals are paying taxes. So let them pay income tax. If you're not willing to let illegals work legally, then the whole argument of them being a burden on taxpayer money doesn't make sense. So don't make that argument when you have claimed you don't believe in letting illegals work legally.
Enforcing all laws is not possible. Should the U.S. enforce all laws, including arresting those downloading movies and music off the internet illegally, or arresting those who jaywalk? Most people seem to get the idea that law = morality. No, no it doesn't. Breaking the law doesn't make a person bad human being. But let's say, U.S. enforces all immigration law. That's another waste of taxpayer money to scrutinize every single small business. You know how big of a hassle that is to manage? And your view of children being born here not being granted citizenship is unfair. So a child born in the U.S. should suffer because of mistakes the parents made? Real ethical. No wonder the Republican Party is losing more members and popularity everyday because they show absolutely no compassion. Realized minorities, immigrants, women, the poor, homosexuals are tending to the left? You who claimed you have compassion for people brought to this country illegally when they were young is yet claiming people born in this country shouldn't be granted citizenship if their parents weren't. Yeah real consistency I see there. You like tearing apart families?
And I do not care if you're a conservative or not, but the whole conservative base are all for yelling about protecting the Constitution yet anything they disagree with, they want the Constitution to be changed without directly mentioning the Constitution. I find it quite funny to be honest with you.
And while I don't condone stealing other people's SSN or anything like that, you're generalizing. There are enough of us who acquired our own SSN (I've had my own social security number since 1997) and/or worked under table. So don't generalize us like that; it's absolutely unfair. It's none of your business to know how my family obtained original SSNs. You see, you're that very misinformed of how difficult the immigration process is in this country despite you thinking you're knowledgeable in this topic.
And finally, I will say this. Just because a person claimed not to be racist for going against amnesty doesn't mean that person is right. It's only been 50 years since the Civil Rights Movement ERA. 50 years is a short time in history. Nowadays, there is such stigma attached to being a racist that nobody wants to out themselves as a racist. People who whine about illegal immigrants are also the ones who seem to whine about Spanish being spoken in this country or dialing 2 for Spanish over the phone. You don't think that is some form of racism? There is no official language in the U.S. And that fear is unwarranted considering the fact that a lot of the children of illegals speak English fluently. But yes, it's frown upon to speak Spanish, just like 50-100 years ago when it was frown upon to speak Italian. Yet, most Italian-Americans do not speak a lick of Italian nowadays, just English. So I don't think people who are fearful of spanish language should worry much. And I'm not one bit Hispanic nor do I speak the language. I am not of Hispanic ethnicity and I could smell this racist bs in this country.
Anyways, best of luck to you, Enough. I hope someday that you show some compassion.
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No, we will not change each other's mind. However, I was hopeful you would gain a better understanding of those opposed to CIR, and realize opposition is not personal. Nor is it primarily motivated by racism. But, that's fine. You don't have to respond. Regardless, I will respond to this.
In reality, Reagan was promised the border would be secured, just as we are being promised today. It didn't happen then, and it won't happen now. Obama has NOT deported more. When pressed, he admitted his deportation numbers include those turned away at the border, as well as counting repeat deportations as though they were additional people. If the same person was deported 5 times, it was erroneously reported as five illegal aliens. The numbers were skewed. Do a little research. If millions are turned away at the border, that does not lower the number currently here. In fact, there has been very little interior enforcement, by design.
Obama will do exactly what the Hispanic lobby dictates. He initially stated the "children" crossing the border would be returned, and suggested the law should be changed to treat them the same as Mexicans and Canadians. Then, as soon as the Hispanic Caucus opposed, he changed his tune. I have no faith in Obama. Frankly, I am sorry I voted for him.
CIR will not fix the problem. It sounds good on paper, but it will never be implemented and enforced by this incompetent government. We don't need a new law to secure the border. Congress already passed a bill to appropriate additional funds for border security. Unfortunately, Bush didn't do it, neither did Obama. They don't want the borders secured. They want illegal immigration to continue to ensure a steady supply of cheap labor.
Hyperbole? I think not. But, I do like your pun. LOL! The government is using the same source today as in 1986 (Census Bureau) to estimate the number here illegally. In 1986, they estimated there were 800,000 in the country. In reality, there were in excess of 3 million. That is quite a huge discrepancy. If they were so off on their estimate then, what would make you believe they have it right now? No, we have far more than 11-12 million. Twenty million is not farfetched; and in the final analysis, may actually be rather conservative.
I said I don't want illegal aliens to work, because I don't want them here, period. And, their race, ethnicity, and national origin have no bearing on my opinion. It is unfair to reward illegal aliens, while others complied with our laws. Not to mention, the millions who are currently waiting for the opportunity to enter this country through legal channels. Why should they be put on the backburner?
If you actually believe it's a waste of taxpayers' funds to enforce our immigration laws, you clearly don't believe we should control illegal immigration. Well, I am a citizen, and I don't consider it a waste. In fact, IMO, it's imperative. It will cost far less to enforce the law, than to pay for millions of illegal aliens for perpetuity.
I have a newsflash for you. It is not only Republicans who support changing Birthright Citizenship. I am not a Republican. Nor are most of my family and friends. Yet, we all believe it should be changed. Even Harry Reid argued for an end to BC prior to adopting his current pandering posture. If you think I'm lying, check out Harry Reid on this video. It is very short, not even a minute long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75a9Wa6KL7k
I can't live in France as a U.S. citizen and give birth to a French citizen, even if I am there legally. Other countries realize they should not confer citizenship to children who do not have a parent citizen. That isn't being mean-spirited; that is simple common sense. Children born to illegal aliens should have the same citizenship as their parents. If they have two Mexican national parents, they should also be a Mexican national. After all their parents aren't U.S. citizens. Your argument lacks logic. Granting children the citizenship of their parents does not in any way, shape, or form "tear apart" families. That's not even bordering on hyperbole. That IS hyperbole.
Illegal immigration and birth tourism has bastardized U.S. citizenship. U.S. citizenship no longer has value when anyone can enter this country, by any means, and give birth to a U.S. citizen. I suppose you also believe women should have the right to fly here from every corner of the world, for the sole purpose of giving birth to a U.S. citizen, then returning home. That's exactly what is happening. Google "Birth Tourism." It's appalling. No other country would tolerate such blatant abuse.
I am not sure why you continue to mention Republicans. I couldn't possibly care less whether any group is for or against them. I already told you, I am not a Republican. I am a former lifelong Democrat, now Independent. If you honestly think the Democrats care about you, you are sorely mistaken. I assure you, they don't. They will say what is necessary to secure votes. They have no moral compass. They don't have a more loyal base than black Americans. Yet, they have thrown them under the bus. You are naive if you actually believe they have your best interest at heart, gays, or any other group. They want votes, period. If Satan and his demons appeared in large enough numbers, they would embrace them for votes.
I am not going to rehash the racism argument. It is utter nonsense. Some have been brainwashed to see racism at every corner. Now, after 75 years, it is suddenly racist to have the team name Washington Redskins. PC is out of control. I have yet to have anyone offer a cogent explanation as to how opposition to illegal immigration is inherently racist. But, if it furthers your cause, I suppose you'll continue to attack opponents with the race card.
I am very compassionate. But, I have little compassion for criminals; especially those who ruin the lives of others for personal gain. Again, illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. My compassion is reserved for the victims.
I find it strange that you believe I lack compassion. If true, I would not have compassion for Dreamers, which I most certainly do. In any case, I enjoyed our chat. Take care!