Thoughts on DREAM Act and the recent election

Invictus · 11-04-2010, 03:59 PM

I've been ridiculously busy over the past few months. School, work, personal projects, etc.

I just wanted to put some of my thoughts down on the Dream Act.

We saw a lot of protests and activism from our activists. I'm really honored by them. They are doing the legwork that I can't afford to do, and I respect and admire their efforts.

Nevertheless, the mainstream media and the average American overlooked the Dream Act in favor of their own issues- jobs, the economy, inflation, etc.

This may be disheartening, but in hindsight, it's to be expected.

The silver lining in this event is that we have learned something. We know what to do next.

If America is only going to focus on issues like jobs and the economy, we can gain tremendous traction for the DREAM Act by linking them with jobs and economy. This will make people support it. This will make senators support it.

We just need to make sure we make rational, logical arguments that connect Dream Act onto the big boat of jobs and the economy.

buckminsterfullerene · 11-06-2010, 12:11 AM

The more specialized jobs are having a harder time getting filled. Such jobs fall in the sector of engineering, and medical areas for example, they are jobs that anyone can't do and require special training usually from colleges. passing the DA will not only give more applicants for the jobs that are having a harder time to get filled, but we have been taking positions as cashiers, construction workers, etc., jobs that really don't require any specialized knowledge in order to do them and can be filled by anyone.

Furthermore, since many will of us are getting a college education there is a good likelihood that some of us could fill the shoes of job creators that may ultimately fortify the economy. Its just that at this moment we are too risky a population for a bank to even consider giving a loan in the name of creating any kind of business and our mobility is seriously restricted.

Invictus · 11-06-2010, 05:02 PM

I know what you mean. There's an emotional aversion rather than a rational one to helping immigrants. But you know what? There are many people who might be on the fence or who might be convinced by rational discourse. There are a lot more benefits to creating a rational framework from which we can advocate for the DREAM Act.

I'm going to draft a quick initial sketch of arguments. Feel free to add, subtract or critique. If something like this fleshes out, it will be a very potent source of advocacy for the DREAM Act. Tell me what you think.

(buckminsterfullerene, I liked your post and incorporated some of your ideas)

1) Passing the DREAM Act will lower crime rates.

Crime is inextricably linked with poverty, and lack of educational and economic opportunities. Passing the DREAM Act will keep DREAM Act beneficiaries off the streets and out of jail by giving them an opportunity to get training and jobs. Crime rates will go down as a result of the DREAM Act.

(Insert study that showed immigrants have lower incarceration rates)

2) Passing the DREAM Act will reduce the amount of money taxpayers spend on undocumented immigrants.

Many citizens find the idea of undocumented citizens usurping taxpayer funds to be unacceptable. Passing the DREAM Act will reduce the amount of money going to undocumented students in three ways:

a) Collecting fines and back-taxes from DREAM Act beneficiaries would bring several million (billion?) dollars into government coffers.

b) DREAM Act beneficiaries will have to pay taxes upon legalization.

c) DREAM Act beneficiaries who graduate will be more likely to get jobs and stay off of taxpayer-funded assistance.

3) Passing the DREAM Act will stimulate the economy by creating and filling jobs.

Statistics show that immigrants are more likely to create jobs and start businesses than American citizens. Passage of the DREAM Act is expected to follow this trend, with DREAM Act beneficiaries more likely to start businesses and create jobs. College graduates will also be more likely to fill specialized jobs that are in high demand despite the recession.

4) Passing the DREAM Act is a humanitarian gesture that aids minors who were unfairly victimized by circumstances and/or the immigration system.

People on both sides of the argument agree that the immigration system is broken. One way in which is falls short is in the lack of protection it affords to minors, and this is what the DREAM Act aims to mitigate.

[What do you think?]

buckminsterfullerene · 11-08-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerFan

Drawing a positive correlation between the DREAM Act and the economy is going to be a tough sell regardless of how solid someone can present that argument. The issue of illegal immigration is a very tough and polarizing one, which is why it keeps being pushed back on the agenda year after year. In reality, there is no one good solution that wouldn't piss off or alienate a particular group. From having this conversation with people, I have found that most citizens/permanent residents feel that the undocumented have put a strain on local resources and are very defensive towards having to contribute any tax dollars towards the education and healthcare of the undocumented population. Also, most people I have talked to are worried about the crime and poverty they have seen come into their mostly white upper-middle class suburban neighborhoods as more illegals (using their own words) have settled in the outskirts of those neighborhoods.

The fact is, no matter how pretty of a package you present your average US taxpayer with when trying to sell the DREAM Act, their number one response will always be something to the effect of "I'm sorry for their situation (if that), but I don't want to see any more of my tax dollars go to educating "those people" while I am trying to put my own kids through college, have a mortgage hanging over my head and my business is not doing as well as it was due to the bad economy."

The average person is clearly more concerned about having to foot the immediate bill and not about the long-term savings that would come with educating and legalizing the potential beneficiaries of this bill, who would in turn be able to create jobs (as buckminster said) or begin paying taxes once employed to help cover those initial costs.

Honestly, it's going to be really difficult to overcome that argument and change people's perspectives on this issue. Unfortunately, most of their perspective comes from what they see, which in truth, is a population of uneducated workers who pose a threat and cause problems in their neighborhoods by congregating in slums and forming gangs. (Don't mean to offend but I am simply relaying what I have heard). That is not to say that everyone shares this view or that it happens in all neighborhoods, but the precedent is there and it is something a good number of people feel very strongly about. Hope I am wrong on this.

Sometimes its harder to sell the truth then a lie.

We know what the facts are, we know that tax payers would not be paying for our education, that they are currently paying about 23k per deportation whereas legalization is a astronomically cheaper option, that dreamers most likely do speak english and would not be gangsters, however, the opposition has been able to sell a very extreme view of immigrants that citizens have responded to and that is the problem.

They have been able to make illegal immigration appear as a federal offense or criminal offense rather then what it is, a civil offense.

buckminsterfullerene · 11-08-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invictus

...

1) Passing the DREAM Act will lower crime rates.

Crime is inextricably linked with poverty, and lack of educational and economic opportunities. Passing the DREAM Act will keep DREAM Act beneficiaries off the streets and out of jail by giving them an opportunity to get training and jobs. Crime rates will go down as a result of the DREAM Act.

(Insert study that showed immigrants have lower incarceration rates)
...

c) DREAM Act beneficiaries who graduate will be more likely to get jobs and stay off of taxpayer-funded assistance.

...
[What do you think?]

I think its extremely rare for us to get any kind of taxpayer funded assistance. other the kinder - 12th education if you consider federal tax payer assistance, otherwise, anything else including the assistance to college students in california or the healthcare system in miami is covered by state or even just county tax payers after they voted and approved those expenditures.

Maybe demonstrate that immigrants are likely to be deported if they commit any offense that brings a prison sentence, thus demonstrating that the ones that have been here for a while, like say 5 years, may not constitute a huge burden to the system.

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Thoughts on DREAM Act and the recent election