DREAM 9 put it all on the line for reform - Page 2

lmao dreamers are now comparing their illegal lives that WILLINGLY chose to live under these "slave" conditions to the lives of people who were KIDNAPPED from their land and FORCED into slavery?

They weren't kidnapped, they were sold by their own people. I agree though we are nowhere near slaves. And if they tried I would rather die than to live as a slave.

Times were different during the slavery days so you can't make a direct comparison, but when someone had no choice in being here, and they have to work jobs where they are abused and taken advantage and do that without a voice, just to survive, that's a fair comparison. The only choice is to self deport which is essentially suicide for many.

At any rate, the current generation of blacks have it much better than the Dreamers and have many more rights than Dreamers do, yet the Dreamers seem to be better off. Compare the education level of Dreamers and arrest record of Dreamers to blacks, many of whom live in the same neighborhoods (except the Dreamers don't get Section 8 housing) and I bet you the Dreamers still come out ahead. Not saying there is no racism because there is, but at some point, you have to stop making excuses.

?Dreamers chose their current lives? I don't remember being consulted when I was brought into the USA. My earliest memories are of watching Barney & Friends in English.

The initial kneejerk reaction might be to laugh at the idea that we're in a scenario similar to slaves, but the comparison isn't wrong at all. It's a difference of degree, not substance. The problem is that most people only know the history of slavery in the American south's plantations.

One popular form of slavery for much of human civilization was that someone who couldn't pay off their debts became a slave until he could pay them off. So, yes, some forms of slavery were the results of voluntary decisions.

Even within the USA there existed a subclass of artisan slaves who lived lives very different from plantation slaves. They were given considerable freedom in their day to day lives and even allowed to keep some of the income they generated (so long as their master got his share). Was this because some slave owners were generous? God no. It simply happens to be that it was profitable to give some slaves more freedom in order to make them more productive.

On a sidebar, I feel obligated to state that slaves even had considerable freedom in their sexual lives. Contrary to popular belief, slave families were not commonly broken up. Again, this wasn't because of slaveowners being good people. They simply recognized that the family unit was productive.

We may have more freedom than plantation slaves of the American south, but neither do we live as freemen. The Bill of Rights do not, for practical purposes, apply to us. Our travel is restricted. Our options for employment are restricted. Our treatment by the police and courts is substandard. We pay and pay our taxes to our masters, but we rarely see any benefits from it.

Slavery should really be thought of as a spectrum. We may not be in the same point as others, but we are definitely on it.

Americans black are stuck in their current socioeconomic status because of institutional barriers placed on them. I won't get into the details.... You know what? I will.

Minimum wage laws have done more to retard the black community than almost anything else. Most blacks, once freed, were unskilled and their children denied access to proper schooling. Some blacks have managed to become skilled or get their children into good schools, but the great mass are still stuck in a situation where they cannot easily acquire new skills and move up the economic ladder. Minimum wage laws deny them the chance to work in the lower rings of the labour market and so many are permanently stuck at the bottom.

If the black community is to advance, it must find a way to get rid of minimum wage laws. While they're at it, they should get rid of zoning laws that discourage larger businesses from opening up shop in their neighborhoods and reform their schooling system by introducing school choice.

This thread is filling up quickly of nonesense, should close it and leave the dream9 alone, regardless of your take on it, these are the kind of action that have sparked the most progress in the life of dreamers, I am certain they didn't do it for personal gain.

If that was the case they could of just gotten daca and AP, what else would they need?

I can't say for the ones that were already in Mexico because I don't know them. Fact is that they did risk, there was no guaranteed whatsoever that they would be left back in, whether you agree or disagree it doesn't matter, they would of still done it, and will do more as they see fit. One of these dreamer is from dreamactivist.org and you bet they will keep pushing the boundaries. That is what it takes to spark some changes around here. Whether is trivial to the CIR movement that is another subject but again they don't always look eye to eye to all that favor CIR, they have disagreed with Gutierrez himself, and they have changed lots of minds including his, when they wouldn't bring the DREAM ACT for a vote back in 2010.

" I don't remember"

Lovely story but this isn't about you. Also I'm posting from my phone. I'll dissect your ever so sad po st later tonight.