The Obama Administration's Missteps in Issuing and Defending the DAPA/DACA Programs - - Page 2

Everyone understands it's not permanent. But it's something, and I disagree with you that ppl should not be worried that the DACA extension and DAPA programs won't come to fruition.

This forum was full of posters who claimed that they knew that the U.S. government does not owe them any thing, and it doesn't owe me or you anything, but ppl have been fighting for it for far too long and sacrificed a lot in the process to let up.

You can apologize for the administration's choice to play with people's lives, but I won't.

What part of the report or legal analysis in the article do you think is exaggeration?

Do you know what it takes to start a rule-making process using the APA in regards to Homeland Security? Because what this article is trying to say is that Obama should of gone that way instead of prosecution guidelines which is what DACA and DAPA essentially are. Im the last person who agrees with playing with people's lives, however Im also a realist and am glad that the Obama administration took the first steps in regards to the immigration debate. Look congress, the courts, and the state governments are not going to help us. In fact you can argue that they are the ones who are playing with people's lives by not agreeing on a simple point like Heckler v. Chaney.

By the way, Im not apologizing for Obama 08 or Obama 12 best decision ever made.

Even though my spamming could argue the opposite, I really hate to post and would rather read than write. So, I'm gonna make sure this is the last comment at least in a week.

I'm not going to defend the Obama Administration because he could have implemented the Executive Actions at least two years ago and this would be resolve by now, more or less. Instead he waited for the last minute knowing how strongly Republicans hate the sinner but love the sin.

A public hearing on this would have solve this specific quagmire we are facing at the moment. I do not believe it would actually prevented this situation. Do you really think it would have stop Texas from filling a lawsuit with a judge that was going to side on their favor no matter how flimsy the lawsuit was? Neither was it going to stop the judge from citing the Guess What? Act of 1812 and the Suck On This precedent from 1902 to make President Obama's actions look un-lawful. We cannot safe proof anything. Nothing in this great world of us is sure proof. Maybe it was a huge mistake or maybe this was the best possible scenario. At this point, this is all speculation. We all can agree on what went wrong but forecasting is way more complicated than that.
The thing is, I went to a couple of forums with actual immigration lawyers, some from Davis University in California and they laugh at me because I asked what the Congress or the states could do to prevent the implementation. The can't do anything reassuring all the sweaty laborers around me. Well, here we are because everyone was too cocky from the president to the grassroots organizations to really measure an enemy that is unreasonable and will use anything on its arsenal to win. That to me was the greatest hindsight of all.

Although I despise forecasting and by no means I am an expert on the issue, I will say a couple of things. There are logical fallacies but also mental fallacies when applying critical thinking. Being overly pessimistic is as bad as being overly optimistic because it prevents from adequate forecasting. Yet, for many people being too critical is a sign of actual knowledge as oppose to being too easy to please, consider all the talent shows out there. We regard the harshest critics as more reliable than the nicest ones. So, if you want to look smart just be a dick more or less.

I will heard the oral arguments and re-read the written response the Justice Dep. send to the 5th Circuit to make a better forecasting. Meanwhile, I do think we are going to get a favorable result next week. Judge Hanen ranted, mostly because he is crazy but he chose to rant right after the 5th Circuit sided with the government on DACA. It was a circus but also, maybe, an attempt to discredit the Justice Department and covertly bully the 5th Circuit judges to go his way. After all, if they side with us, they are either idiots who let themselves fool easily or malicious co-conspirators trying to undermine the rule of law. He is siding with factions that go beyond conservative and turn extremists. Back in the day, I used to thank journalist that made positive articles about dreamers. One of them from a rather large city actually wrote me back thanking me. She told me she received death threats for her article. Although they were not taken seriously, they were still upsetting. It is not that the majority of Americans are against CIR but that the ones who are against are very vocal and sometimes even violent.

I also take offense the believe that the judges are bipartisan because they are like everyone. Granted, they have their own issues to deal with but if this was case, then all this intellectual masturbation will make no sense. The case is already lost because the judges will rule according to bipartisan lines. I know is a rather innocent argument but I believe that judges, with rare exceptions, are rational beings basing their decisions on logic and not emotion. In other words, there is no guarantee that the Obama appointee will judge in our favor or that the W. Bush appointed will judge against. It is very likely but not 100% certain.

I think that given the situation, the 5th Circuit HAD to drill the Justice Department lawyers. They need to show that they are not prone to foolishness and that they are going beyond scrutiny to make the right decision. They could just do nothing and avoid all this drill but they choose to actually hear the arguments and that is an actual indicative that Texas does not have all the marbles on its pocket neither.

What I actually heard was the Justice Department standing its ground and the Texas lawyer admitting some lacking in some form or another. Based on reason, I think the 5th Circuit will side with us. Still, I do take into account human error. First, my own prejudicial preferences to cloud my judgment and second, the ones of the judges which are still possible. That's why nothing is certain and as humans a reality we must deal with to move forward.

There's no doubt that Obama's administration excels in making mistakes in these types of situations that the Republicans love to exploit--or that his timing was based on political motives that did not work well for Dreamers or their families. There's also no doubt that some Republicans on the far right will stop at nothing, not even chewing off their own arm, if it will help them to oppose Obama's immigration actions.

To my mind, though, there is at least one or two shimmers of hope to keep in mind. The first is that this is just all about a temporary block while the courts make a decision. If the 5th circuit rules against the Obama administration, it means nothing more than that they are not going to allow Obama to go ahead with the programs until the matter is definitively settled in the courts. It was, frankly, a long shot that the Obama administration would even win the "victory" of having them hear the motion, so I would take that to mean all is not lost.

Beyond that, my suspicion is that the Republican strategy here is to try to run out the clock on Obama and let the reforms drop naturally without ever having seen them implemented--hoping, on the very unlikely hope, that they can win the White House and allow the extension to die a quiet death. You may recall that just recently in the DHS shutdown debacle the Republicans in the House were seen by even Republicans in the Senate as having gone too far in trying to do away with the original DACA program, and I think that was a sort of recognition by the semi-sane Republicans in the Senate that it was very bad presidential politics to attack Dreamers and made them look mean, bitter, and somewhat racist. One might also note that the DREAM act was originally a Republican idea, like much of what Obama has done. All things considered, I think it would probably be seen as very un-American to simply do away with the original DACA if a Republican somehow managed to get into office; that says nothing of how bad it would look to deport Dreamers who tried to do the right thing and made no personal mistake on their own to supposedly "break" immigration law.

The ultimate message is that we all need to do everything possible to get a Democrat elected to the White House in 2016 and to work against Republicans in Congress and, perhaps more importantly even, in the state elections coming up in two years. The only reason the Republicans are even a political factor is that the groups affected by their crappy policies don't vote in very high percentages. Every DREAMER should do the Mormon thing of converting one non-voter into a voter for the Democrats in 2016--and more than that even more if they know more than one potential voter! This should be the mantra of the DREAM Act movement right now--not so much flashy protests but hard and fast political organizing of any eligible non-voting eligible voter you know to support the president's programs and, more importantly, immigration reform with a path to citizenship. And to push non-citizen green card holders who could be eligible to vote by 2016 to get citizenship and vote for the Democrats against the Republicans. The writing is on the wall if only we could get people to come out and vote against those that are against immigrants and their families.

Ultimately, the pendulum always swings the opposite direction and it is bound to swing the right way, especially if Dreamers and other activists give it a nudge in the right direction.

Beautifully said, thank you.

you know honestly I am so confused as to what is going on right now

You're not alone. It's a huge fucking mess and the fact that the average journalist knows fuck all about immigration isn't helping any. Even I am having trouble making sense of this god damn clusterfuck.

I've been in a fog....

One last point I forgot to mention, this article is VERY disingenuous if they believe that DAPA and DACA would of just had a 30 days review period. Republicans would used this period to obstruct in every point of the process making the process last 10+ years or until a new administration that favors them gets into power. Let us be honest, for republicans, their number one priority is to make the president look weak. Even though Obama is the only person with the balls to act when congress, state governments, and the courts have continuously ignored the question for decades.

Yes we are hanging on a thread that could be cut at any moment, however this thread allows for us to move without fear in this great country. The road for political change is never easy, but someone had to take the first step.

Reminds of uncle Roosevelt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8

After your personal note on what you believe are the merits of 2012 DACA for youand how you don't care if they take it away because you aren't entitled to it, you post this drivel? Did you eve read it? Why post on something that you didn't bother to read - stop trolling.

People without DACAx or DAPA don't even have a f***ing thread to hang onto and THAT is the point of the article.

Unless you've been living under a rock, you'd have seen that this administration continues to deport ppl who are eligible for DACA/DAPA.