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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The News Room

Push to Protect ‘Dreamers’ From Trump Gains New GOP Supporters - Page 4

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#31
01-15-2017, 09:10 PM
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Joined in Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laterlater View Post
Your are bit thick.
Yes, elections have consequences.

But in no possible world is having a Republican administration the better outcome.

Before a Republican administration, DACA was the baseline; any legislation was anticipated to help the wider population of undocumented immigrants (i.e. your family who did not qualify).

Post Trump, the horizon has receded; it is at best DACA via legislation, at worst nothing with continued or accelerated deportation, along with an Attorney General and DHS Head who are even less sympathetic.

Basically, what is being offered is: be grateful we won't be deporting you - but your parent and older siblings who aged out - their fucked.

This offering of DACA in legislation - after committees, amendments, and reconciliation etc - assuming it even survives that far - is very likely to be a less generous edition. That is it.

Eva02 is essentially correct on both point, no need for revisionist history, the House votes for the 2013 CIR were there, among the Repub caucus, as they are now, except Boehner would not allow it a simple up-or-down vote for partisan reasons. Passing Bridge Act now would just be a political layup - to take credit for 'doing something'.

Again, elections have consequences, and political realities being what they are, by all means call Republican congressional members in support of Bridge Act. Try to persuade Trump to stick with his nebulous promises. Take part in activism.

But drop the silly and inane illusion that a republican administration, in terms of DACA or immigration as a whole, is to our advantage - despite the counterfactual staring you in the face.

All we are going to get is DACA (maybe; was assured under Dems) and uncertainty. Nothing else is any longer in the cards.
There's two things that come to my mind.

1) We don't have a choice because the Republican administration is here. So you calling me thick for supporting it makes zero sense. Do you propose we just go hide in our holes and come back out when a Democrat is elected again? Hell no, trying to move on with our lives over here. You must learn to live in the present moment. This is not an illusion. He is going to be inaugurated on January 20th if you didn't know. The person who is living in an illusion is you.

2) I'm pretty sure the full consensus here is that under Hillary, only one thing would have happened with us and that is DACA would have been kept alive and just simply the way it is. There's no freakin way in hell Republicans would have signed on to help pass CIR. The woman is hated immensely by even Democrats so you can only imagine how Republicans feel for her. And actually I am actually sensing some type of action now under Trump even though if it means getting rid of DACA, and that is why I keep advocating that the immigrant community should start warming up to him.

Simple logic. The man has no intention to deport us. And yes I am cautiously optimistic because he is surrounded by some immigrant haters like Sessions and Pence but knowing the man himself, his background, I actually believe he is going to be forcing McConnell and Ryan (Both who support SOME SORT of immigration reform) to pass legislation.
Last edited by 2Face; 01-15-2017 at 09:20 PM..
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#32
01-15-2017, 11:54 PM
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Joined in Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by eva02 View Post
This is all about them avoiding negative PR and losing even more ground amongst Latino voters and possibly millenials. We are a sympathetic group of immigrants so the smart thing for them to do is preserve the status quo and carry on with their plans of "securing the border" and deporting criminals.
As usual, I agree with @eva2. It would be the rational thing to do. But the GOP Freedom Caucus ( "Lemmings with suicide vests") is not rational. They are the crazies.

They are the ones that took out John Boehner.

Maybe they will be too busy getting rid of Planned Parenthood, Social Security and Obamacare to worry about the BRIDGE Act.
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#33
01-16-2017, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AztecAztec View Post
As usual, I agree with @eva2. It would be the rational thing to do. But the GOP Freedom Caucus ( "Lemmings with suicide vests") is not rational. They are the crazies.

They are the ones that took out John Boehner.

Maybe they will be too busy getting rid of Planned Parenthood, Social Security and Obamacare to worry about the BRIDGE Act.
There are about 30 of them left. They lost a lot of members this past election cycle as well. They ain't calling the shots anymore. I never hear about the tea party anymore either lol after they were elected and didn't do much people gave up on voting for them.
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#34
01-18-2017, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Face View Post
There's two things that come to my mind.
......
That was a pretty reasonable response, which I agree entirely with.

Present reality being what it is, we must perforce face forward and deal with it.

The suggestion made occasionally in this forum that it is somehow better under a Republican administration is what mostly bothers me.

Of course, its neither here nor there now I suppose.
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#35
01-20-2017, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Face View Post
There's two things that come to my mind.

1) We don't have a choice because the Republican administration is here. So you calling me thick for supporting it makes zero sense. Do you propose we just go hide in our holes and come back out when a Democrat is elected again?...

2) I'm pretty sure the full consensus here is that under Hillary, only one thing would have happened with us and that is DACA would have been kept alive and just simply the way it is. There's no freakin way in hell Republicans would have signed on to help pass CIR. The woman is hated immensely by even Democrats so you can only imagine how Republicans feel for her...

Simple logic. The man has no intention to deport us. And yes I am cautiously optimistic because he is surrounded by some immigrant haters like Sessions and Pence but knowing the man himself, his background, I actually believe he is going to be forcing McConnell and Ryan (Both who support SOME SORT of immigration reform) to pass legislation.
EDIT. Got time, re-read. You completely mis-represented my point. And no, it is not the consensus that gridlock therefore a Hillary presidency would be worse - specifically for the reasons outlined above. The obverse is also true, as you say: "There's no freakin way in hell Republicans would have signed on to help pass CIR", even in a Republican administration.

Your hypothetical makes far too many assumptions to answer intelligibly.

So let me repeat, you are thick to think otherwise. And no, nowhere did I mention stubbornly rejecting the present political reality as the rational course of actions. Only what is and isn't likely. But that doesn't mean I have any illusory hopes or false expectations. Nor does it entail some strange Stockholm syndrome to those in power. That was your own red-herring to chase after. I suppose you had nothing else.

"knowing the man himself" - really? Have you personally met him? Have you brushed his knees and served him hot coco? Have you gazed into his eyes and got a sense of his soul - Bush-like? In the final analysis, we base conclusions and the likleyhood of events on the best available evidence.

I suspect DACA in some form will be preserved, but not because he's a humanitarian or cares a jot, but as I said, its just a political layup to do so. To expect anything more is to not live in a fact-based reality.

(Don't get it mixed up, I fervently hope that I am wrong; that Trump and the Republicans do surprise and disappoint my hopes, passing something that is more than presently provided for by DACA).
Last edited by Laterlater; 01-23-2017 at 10:10 PM..
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