Trump Speaks - Page 10

The fact that Luis Gutierrez even knows about them just contradicts your delusional claim that they aren’t influential.

But here’s an article from when they met with former President Obama and legislators and UWD pushed their amnesty-for-all agenda.

http://observatoriocolef.org/?notici...zation-for-all

“We set forth our agenda,” said Jimenez, who said they pressed the President on supporting a clear pathway to citizenship for all undocumented families, not just Dreamers.”

You wouldn’t know this since you barely even know who they are. You honestly think members of congress haven’t heard of them? Quit embarrassing yourself.

lmao haha

Im laughing inside.
Hard.

Did you just copy and paste the first thing you found that sounded like it kind'a (maybe) made your point for you?

Jesus, do you even read what you post yourself? Apparently not.

You realize that none of their points set forth, in the very same damn article (that you apparently read) where satisfied or even remotely meet under DACA correct? Exactly as I said in this thread about such group. Good job reinforcing my point inadvertently though.

http://observatoriocolef.org/?notici...zation-for-all

You must be reading impaired. I mentioned this already, in the first post of this thread, -- and the fact that their part in it was largely negligible, window dressing - especially given that the DHS Memo was drafted months in advance, prior to it.

In case you forgot: Obama, in what can only be described as a cynical deliberate political move, decided to act more than a year later, to shore up his Latino support before the 2012 re-election.

Is that it? You know the decision to meet with them was largely for PR right? As the actual legislative/executive decision was reached prior to the whole conference call.

You are unbelievably thick.

Knowing about an organization is not tantamount to endorsing or even remotely being influenced by it. By that - strange logic - DREAM Act would have passed by now. After all, I know about some group that endorse it. Right?

My knowledge of a thing, even if it has brand recognition, again, is not a necessary or sufficient condition for it to influence one's choice of action.

This principle, which you are advancing in your desperation, is beyond pathetic. And you know it.

The obvious conclusion is that it had no bearing on their legislative decision making.

Which is the whole point I am trying to make.

But carry on with your inconsequential and meaningless social media/tweeter battles, against an organization that is largely on your side.

Try again.


(I actually enjoy this.)

..
..

Lmao you continue to tippy toe around to subject to fit whatever narrative you try to preach with each post. First you claim you know nothing about UWD, then back track and say you “researched” them earlier this week.

Next you tried to downplay their influence by calling them “grass-roots, youth-led, voluntary organization at bottom” but then admit they’ve had contact with Luis Gutierrez.

And now when asked provided with proof of how UWD pushes their agenda to even the president of the United States in person it didn’t satisfy you because it wasn’t DACA related.


United We Dream pushes their almost extreme views on pro immigration. That’s why no one here likes them and perhaps no one here truly will understand why you are upset over everyone’s reaction.

You can continue to try to act like you’re above 2face, smooth or whatever poster you’re arguing with tomorrow but you need to understand UWD does more damage to us if leaders in Congress truly believe this is how we all feel (we don’t btw just incase you were wondering).

Oh and yes I did read the article, I actually read that years ago back when I didn’t realize how crazy UWD really is. I’m glad you’re enjoying this, can’t wait to see how you change the topic next and what cute little one liner you try to finish it off. Lmao 🙄

Lets try this one by one.

Oh and yes I did read the article, I actually read that years ago back when I didn’t realize how crazy UWD really is. I’m glad you’re enjoying this, can’t wait to see how you change the topic next and what cute little one liner you try to finish it off. Lmao


You see, I thought the topic was whether or whether not UWD or whatever, were politically consequential. At least that was my position from the start; I held the negative, you the positive.


"And now when asked provided with proof of how UWD pushes their agenda to even the president of the United States in person it didn’t satisfy you because it wasn’t DACA related."

It didn't satisfy your point actually - which was presumably the point of you posting it in the first place, that they were effective (let me emphasis, EFFECTIVE - as in consequential) in pushing though legislation. That was kind'a your point to make........

My position is that they are not; which is what the article bears out.


"United We Dream pushes their almost extreme views on pro immigration. That’s why no one here likes them and perhaps no one here truly will understand why you are upset over everyone’s reaction."

Again, I'd be 'upset' too if I thought they were in anyway consequential in terms of framing legislation - (which you yourself have failed to prove so far....); mostly it seems like pointless and wasted energy to even engage with them as you and the others do.

You can skirt the substantial question at hand if you like, but allow me to spell it out again: The onus was on you and everyone else who fancied them (UDW) consequential legislatively in any way to provide evidence of this. Thus far, you have not.

So far, you've manage to do the opposite. Go you!


You can continue to try to act like you’re above 2face, smooth or whatever poster you’re arguing with tomorrow but you need to understand UWD does more damage to us if leaders in Congress truly believe this is how we all feel (we don’t btw just incase you were wondering).

Ok. I can accept that you genuinely believe so. I don't see myself as anyway above the others - I genuinely could not comprehend the obsessive animus on display in every bloody thread towards this organization by the above two.

We can agree to disagree on the matter. It isn't personal. I actually give you credit for trying - really.

Carry on.

They are politically relevant because they have been one of the major voices for dreamers over the years. Pelosi and Schumer were even spewing the same rhetoric. A lot of local Dreamer orgs are following the same damn rhetoric. The same rhetoric is being propagated on facebook and twitter.

Many of us here have been contacting legislators and countering UWD's rhetoric. If you do not wish to exert energy on this, that's your decision. My goal is to increase the likelihood that a compromise is reached. UWD should not be underestimated. They propagate shit on facebook, twitter, and email communication.

A man who boasts about grabbing pussy gets elected for President, and you are busting my balls about a damn legitimate concern. If your lazy ass does not want to counter UWD, than step the fuck aside and let us do it. It does not mean we are wrong.

*yawn*

mods close the thread

That is precisely the point.
Three questions when embarking on any course of action immediately beg themselves:

1) Is this really a problem?
1) Are the benefits of perusing this course of action justified by the effort to resolve said problem?
2) Is it the most effective tactic to achieve one's end (i.e. to get "DREAM Act enshrined into law")

It doesn't even meet #1 to my mind

You say they (UDW) have tremendous political sway, that Schumer and Pelosi have been parroting their rhetoric, namely that of insisting on legalizing all 11 million persons.

But that was in fact the default Democratic position, not just UDW.

However, that is no longer so; Schumer and Pelosi are not of that view anymore; they want instead to focus on DREAM Act alone, to the exclusion of 11 million; which is the antithesis of the UDW policy priority.

Therefore, clearly UDW is not a problem to be dealt with though your online 'activism', since they are not being heeded at all by - well, ANY Democratic congressman in the first instance.

Which goes back to my first and original point - they are not politically consequential whatsoever to warrant your energy.

They may seems so to you, since they are vocal on social media. But that is all. Libertarians are also vocal on social media, but they account for less than 1% of the voting population, and as such, are functionally fictional.

So instead, we would be better served be focusing efforts on possibly sympathetic Republican Congressman to votes on the Dream Act, and Rep leadership to allow it to even come up for a vote (stand-alone or coupled, either way).

Am I missing something here? For all intents and purposes, they are already politically irrelevant.

In short, my contention is that your simply mistaking your personal internet squabble with a legitimate concern, and that it has no bearing on actual policy and those who make them, since they clearly are not heeded UDW at all. Its basically pointless masturbatory wallowing to my mind.

Please don't. No one's reading this thread anyways.