People in NEW YORK ! - Page 2

I don't live in NY so my opinion does not matter but I agree with you. Well, done and planned rallies can work effectively but J6 is right in that you need at least a month to plan it carefully. Let's not fool ourselves, no matter how nice, educated and american we are, there is going to be a share of the conservative and liberal groups that are going to demonize us and a good percentage that believe it is true that we are demons. We are in a conflict. We want something and they do not want to give it to us. they might say they want to give it to us but it is a lie. they would give it to us if it cost them nothing to do the exchange. As a result, they rather give us nothing. There is not smooth or easy or bland way to do this. Only a collusion because we are at war. Everthing we say they can manipulate until it serves their own agenda. We have to be ready for that too.



>>>>Yeah unfortunately we are still dancing their dance....keep a look out in NY...we are planning two consecutive major events in Nydia Velasquez district in the coming weeks and a general nationwide action....we have been coordinating well over a month and are just waiting for the date to go on board with the action.

Do you have a nationwide action. Do you have branches in places other than NY. I went to your site but it felt like it was local base thus I was not able to contribute more. If you need help for the national action please tell us how can be help, if yo do not feel comfortable posting information you can PM me, taskgirl or Dreamact1982. I only add myself as a requirement. I understand if you do not trust me.

1) Not enough time - Vote could come as early as next Monday, that is nowhere enough time to plan anything. Anti-war rallies take MONTHS to organize so unless you're going to find many people who are going to abandon their lives and go fast tomorrow I don't see how it could work.

------------------------------------> Well Yes, but it's not bad to start something new like this. And I am sorry I should have made such a suggestion earlier.

2) New York Senators - both our Senators support DREAM so what point is there to protest in front of their offices? It's not like protesting in front of Vitter's office is it?

------------------------------------> This rally or protest is not to show how we are living in new york to new york senators. I hope you are not demeaning my little effort my friend. New York is one of the biggest city in the US, if not in the world. ITS ONLY PURPOSE IS TO BRING AN ATTENTION!! Do you realize how many people there who know absolutely nothing of this bill?

3) Security - I meant someone from OUR group could assault a passerby and effectively ruin the legislation forever. I'm 100% sure that we'd get some guy in a Chavez T-shirt yelling profanities at people.

------------------------------------> Where in the world did you come up with this idea that SOMEONE with Chavez T-shirt will assault someone? This is New York my friend, and living here for nearly ten years I haven't seen a riot running off while rallying. Of course, there is no guarantee. I must admit that fact too, but to say such things even before nothing has been done just seems over-reaction and exaggeration to me. Sorry.


4) Public opinion - What have we learned from the immigration protests? That they piss people off. That upside down flag incident probably set us back months, as did the fact that every other flag was a Mexican one. To many Americans the protest basically said "I'm violating your laws but fuck you because I'm walking down the Brooklyn Bridge". Don't kid yourself, any sort of connection between Dreamers and the average illegal immigrant will do nothing but ruin us. The whole premise of this legislation is to show how radically different our groups is and that is our only hope. That's why our champion is Juan and not Elvira. If you want to show unity then just stop advocating DREAM and start advocating the CIR (which will probably never happen).

-------------------------------------> Don't you realize by now that we are not ordinary immigrants? This last reply is not only unacceptable but offending and frustrating. To many senseless and uneducated americans those protests were "Fcuk You", but to those of who are educated and knows how hard immigrants work everyday getting minimum wages to fill in all the dirty jobs in the US, they will never take it as such a disgusting protest. I just don't understand why or how you are coming up with all those pessimistic opinions. What you are doing right now is nothing more than to say this DREAM Act will never work out because american citizens hate illegal immigrants so much.
Are you a supporter or the opposite?
And if you wanted a union made up here, please read your own reply over and think over what you have said. I appreciate your interest on so little I have written but I will expect your courtesy and respectful responses.

J6 is in favor of CIR but he is objective. The very premise of Dream is that we cannot be held responsible of breaking the law because we were force to break the law by our parents. I told my dad and he is cool with it as long as they give me papers. The laws are bad and need to be changed but lets face it they are not going to be changed for a while. Dream has strong chances of becoming a law this year and we need to be strategic about it. If rallies are not carefully planed, they might become a real problem. Some crazy person who wants California to be returned back to Mexico can use our rally to give the world a piece of his/her mind. Members of Allipac can get out and scream and curse us and if we are not in control things can get ugly. I have some experience organizing rallies. Those are real problems we had to overcome. Now that does not mean I trust or like J6, in fact, I hate his guts...lol j/k. I am just trying to be neutral and give a response.

Well as I said you can do it, fine, I just don't think it's the best idea. If you carefully plan it then it may be a success and I applaud those who are trying to make it happen and I'm just voicing my concerns.

I don't personally believe you can convince people on the streets to do anything. I say this because there's protests all the time in NY and they don't really achieve much. People see heartbreaking stories on TV but they don't pick up the phone and call Senators. Take the case of Falun Gong who have laid absolute siege to New York a year or two ago. It was interesting and scary the first few days but at some point people were becoming annoyed that they couldn't get to their train at Union Sq or get to work on time near Ground Zero. Protests have a way of easily turning bad and we don't want that. Before you organize anything you need to really consider that it can go wrong in ways you can't predict.

The reason I bring up the CIR protests is this. Americans don't like immigrants. They maybe don't hate us but they don't LIKE us. The last thing an American wants to see is Mexican flags being paraded by illegals on their streets. It shows that you want to bring Mexican culture into the US instead of "becoming American". Their culture is being threatened and it's a bad strategy to exaggerate that. Keep in mind I'm not saying anything about Mexican culture or bringing it to the US or things like that but rather that people are always threatened by displays of foreign pride.

If you live in New York then you know that the Puerto Rican parade is the annual disaster that this city has to face. Every year it gets horrible publicity because someone always does something stupid and it's large enough to get attention. People have gotten assaulted and raped numerous times and property is damaged annually. I even recall a story on how a teenage pregnant girl was smoking weed while drinking beer. Now does this mean Puerto Ricans are like that? No. Does it mean that those few people smear their image in a way that would otherwise be impossible? Yes. Demonstrations in New York are notorious for going wrong and there's been enough cars that have been egged during anti-war rallies to really put people off here.

I am for the CIR but we would come off as pretty big hypocrites because DREAM says "hey we're not like them and that's why we deserve a chance". Understand that there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of CIR passing if something as ridiculously selective as DREAM doesn't pass. I am a pessimist but that's because the history of immigration reform has given me no reason for optimism. Sorry if my words come of as a bit strong sometimes, I don't intend to insult anyone but I am a realist and I say what I think.

Yeah. We have really bad press in NY like the NY Post which unfortunately shows our people in very bad light.

Although we cant change bad press, what we can do is have repeated press coverage to bring light to our cause. 1 press article wont change much but several press articles written about the same story makes people pay attention.

Visit: http://nysylc.blogspot.com

Case study to prove a point: We had an action July 18th. It was relatively small but it got a member of Schumer's staff to come down from his office and receive a legislative packet with our information. Local press covered it which followed with a series of press articles in the NYT and Daily News. If we have to stand everyday to meet with Schumer and let him hear us out, it must be done. Bad Democracy? Yes.

But it must be done because otherwise our voices are not heard.