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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The News Room

Steve King: What Happens To Undocumented Immigrants Isn't My Responsibility - Page 2

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#11
07-21-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Knight View Post
I don't agree with King, but I think he has an internally sound argument. Unless one is an anarchist who doesn't believe in borders, we are unlawfully here and no one is morally obligated to help us. King didn't bring us here. Our parents did.

So one of two things.

We must embrace anarchy or we must be grateful for whatever leniency, if any, is given to us. If we choose the latter then it seems odd to name call King. He is just applying the law.
God and the constitution are the two most used excuses for extremists to cover their true feelings. Asking congress to find a pragmatic solution to a very serious problem in not anarchism but keeping the status quo sure is.
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#12
07-21-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Knight View Post
I don't agree with King, but I think he has an internally sound argument. Unless one is an anarchist who doesn't believe in borders, we are unlawfully here and no one is morally obligated to help us. King didn't bring us here. Our parents did.

So one of two things.

We must embrace anarchy or we must be grateful for whatever leniency, if any, is given to us. If we choose the latter then it seems odd to name call King. He is just applying the law.
There's something wrong with you. Wasn't it you defending the study that concluded white people were smarter than Hispanics? Think critically.

What's wrong with what you said here? Well, one you said it yourself, our parents brought us here. Kids can't be punished for breaking the law(more on this later) because they aren't fully aware of what their actions will result in, a lot of times not aware of what's happening at all.

Now let's argue semantics. Anarchy leans towards being a bad thing. Complete absence of law, or completely ignoring laws, resulting in chaos. This is not the right word for your argument. Most people come to the U.S because they like what most of the laws collectively accomplish, even though no single law is always just. Laws are there to keep order, however laws are made by lawmakers, and history teaches us about people abusing this position.

So now, are kids to be punished by laws? Is it not right to try to change laws to accommodate better ones? Is it not right to do so with the added benefit of strengthening the country?

If you're close minded or have hate in your heart you will follow "the rule of law" no matter what.
If you think critically you will see things differently.
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#13
07-21-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Knight View Post
I don't agree with King, but I think he has an internally sound argument. Unless one is an anarchist who doesn't believe in borders, we are unlawfully here and no one is morally obligated to help us. King didn't bring us here. Our parents did.

So one of two things.

We must embrace anarchy or we must be grateful for whatever leniency, if any, is given to us. If we choose the latter then it seems odd to name call King. He is just applying the law.
Agree. As much people hate this guy all he doing is applying the law. But if it's not his responsibility why even bother to do this show ? Was the purpose if this to tell America this isn't his responsibility and theres no moral obligation?



Didn't need to say that in an hispanic program.
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#14
07-22-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severity View Post
There's something wrong with you. Wasn't it you defending the study that concluded white people were smarter than Hispanics? Think critically.

What's wrong with what you said here? Well, one you said it yourself, our parents brought us here. Kids can't be punished for breaking the law(more on this later) because they aren't fully aware of what their actions will result in, a lot of times not aware of what's happening at all.

Now let's argue semantics. Anarchy leans towards being a bad thing. Complete absence of law, or completely ignoring laws, resulting in chaos. This is not the right word for your argument. Most people come to the U.S because they like what most of the laws collectively accomplish, even though no single law is always just. Laws are there to keep order, however laws are made by lawmakers, and history teaches us about people abusing this position.

So now, are kids to be punished by laws? Is it not right to try to change laws to accommodate better ones? Is it not right to do so with the added benefit of strengthening the country?

If you're close minded or have hate in your heart you will follow "the rule of law" no matter what.
If you think critically you will see things differently.
Agreed. I think the frame of his (Knight's) argument is absurd and is on to the realm of stretching to an extreme for no apparent reason. Not to mention his delightful scenario is bordering on a false dilemma (Because you know, if you disagree with a law, i.e border, you're going along the anarchist thinking <- wat.). By using the logical frame of his argument, we can also make the case against the 13th amendment, because you know, those hard working non-slaves/white citizens at that time weren't morally obligated to help those legally bound slaves. It's morally absurd and devoid of empathy.
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#15
07-22-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith View Post
Agree. As much people hate this guy all he doing is applying the law. But if it's not his responsibility why even bother to do this show ? Was the purpose if this to tell America this isn't his responsibility and theres no moral obligation?



Didn't need to say that in an hispanic program.
He's just being intellectually lazy and or xenophobic and is pulling out the convenient method of saying that he's not "morally" obligated. It really does not have much meaning and is an empty statement.
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#16
07-22-2013, 06:32 PM
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Here's how stupid King's argument is.

Quote:
King responds by saying that giving in to calls to reform the country's immigration system would amount to waiving the rule of law.
This would be true if laws didn't show their age or could be flexible in its implementation. Alas, it's not, and laws that we have in this country are fairly rigid and static and they have multiple evaluations from our Congress and to a lesser extent Supreme Court. The current immigration law is broken and or showing its age where it no longer applies as the original authors of said immigration law intended. This is why we have open debates about our laws and reform it. This is never about violating some fantasy "rule of law" baloney.

Next.

Quote:
"Well, here -- it isn't my responsibility to solve that problem," he says. "And American citizens and legal Americans do not have a moral obligation to solve the problem of the 11 million people that are here unlawfully. That's a condition they willfully stepped into on their own, and some of them will make the decision on their own on what to do. Many of them actually will do that."
Imagine a sinking ship as the United States (I know, grim, but bare with me) and Immigration law as one of the "holes" in the ship. Would it not be a moral obligation for the shipmates and the crew to patch that hole before their ship sinks (I'm not saying that the US will literally die if we don't pass CIR, just an analogy)? A lack of a comprehensive reform to the immigration system is causing problems in economics, social, and health to this country. It would be in the very best interest of this nation and its people to address it. And the latest CBO results at the very least seems to prove the economics and social part.

Moving on.

Quote:
"So one of the pillars of American exceptionalism is the rule of law," King says, "and if we destroy that because we are -- the sympathy in our heart for the DREAMers is greater than our love for the rule of law, then we have failed, we failed our Founding Fathers, and we have diminished the destiny of this nation."
And this is the final symphony of King's supposed argument. That somehow, if we gain and ounce of sympathy and empathy (God willing, conservatives principles be damned) toward the DREAMers, it means that the rule of law was violently destroyed (Which I outlined above and it actually, literally isn't). This last statement is grabbing straws at this point and is the very definition of a hyperbole.
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#17
07-22-2013, 07:30 PM
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There are many brilliant people in this country without college degrees. Steve King is clearly not one of them. However, how he got to where he is now is pretty impressive.
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