House will vote soon on a bill to protect Dreamers/TPS recipients. - Page 6

I don't understand. People on this forum told me that this is just a "dem spin", why are the republicans arguing over dem propaganda? Obviously some people posting on this forum are way more informed than these republicans. Makes no sense.

/s

If you are asking whether or not GOP are less informed than posters on this forum, the answer is unequivocally yes. The 1.6 was for border security, 0 wall. The 1.375 is for 55 miles of wall. In total ICE + CPB + DHS gets 23B.

http://dreamact.info/forum/showpost....5&postcount=47

But to directly address what you're saying,


Left-wing slams Chuck Schumer for agreeing to $1.6 billion for border security to avoid a government shutdown

Nov. 28, 2018
Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/left...border-2018-11


I shouldn't have to say if there's a wall, the democrats will call it fencing, and if it is fencing, republicans would call it a wall. It's irrelevant and political nonsense.

Realistically this is the best outcome that the dems could've gotten.

They basically checked everyone's "border security 2019" checkbox without giving away a bunch of money for stupid shit like 200 foot concrete walls.

All of the sudden Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats have forgotten about the Dreamers.. and are creating a political theater to pass a bill for Dreamers afterwards that has no chance of being signed into law...... they didn't negotiate a good deal

Again, the Senate was not the decision maker here, it was the house. The point of passing anything in the senate was to send the bill to the house (where wall would be stripped) then it would force the bill into conference where Republicans would have to go on the record about continuing the shutdown. That’s why McConnell didn’t bring it to the floor.

Politics is actually so toxic, it warps reality.

To the "republicans" dreamers - you're literally saying "stupid dems, you need to fight and put in all your political capital every chance you get to pass dream act so I can vote republican for life" and you don't see the irony in that.

To the "democrat" dreamers - you're literally saying "republicans are so evil and racist, DACA relief will never happen. We need majority in the house, super majority the senate, and control the white house before any DACA legislation will pass" and forgetting what happened in 2010.

You need to look at what bills they're proposing, what bills they're blocking, what they voted for. It'll give you a clearer indication of the actual state of politics.

Personally, I think the republicans would support DACA + TPS legalization if they get something back (because the majority of republicans are not racist). What are the democrats going to offer that's bipartisan is the question. All that can be said so far is that dems don't want to trade the wall for DACA + TPS but they're willing to trade something else. Dems will not fight on DACA every chance they get (especially after what they learned during the 2018 shutdown) but this "bipartisan DACA bill" will show you if they're more on the serious side or more on the grandstanding side.

The best chance for DACA legalization is with the wall. The only reason is because of Trump, he will threaten everything and he's the wildcard so giving him a wall gives some insurance he will sign. But it is not the only chance for DACA legalization and Congress can override a veto.

For the sake of sanity, please reserve your appreciation or anger until you actually see the bill or at least reduce how certain you are of the bill's outcome/motive because you haven't seen it.

That's obviously not true. The point is they don't have to give any wall or ask for DACA. They should've just offered normal package with border security, no wall or fence and forced Trump to either veto or continue the shutdown. Public opinion was on their side. There is literally NO reason to give any wall except for 1: it will pacify Trump just enough to keep immigration an issue for 2020 with no chance of a greater deal. Do you pretend to think Dems actually want to solve immigration before the election (or ever as long as it helps them more than it hurts them)?

Great news!

You need to look at what historically the democrats have voted for and what they've done so far.

Congress has passed wall funding during Trump's presidency, way before the shutdown fight for 5.7 billion border security. If you look at the 2017/2018 budget, there was money for the wall/fence. There are some articles on the internet that tracked spending for the border wall and Trump spend something between 6 to 60% of it.

The fact of matter is, Congress has always funded border security. This is not new. It's not new when Obama was in Office, it is not new when Trump came into office. There are a couple of people that kept saying democrats won't fund the wall. One is Trump, the other is Pelosi. Both are trying to earn political points and both are wrong. There is money for the wall/fence. Trump just doesn't think it's enough.

Dems caved much harder in the winter of 2018 giving 1.6 billion for wall/fence funding. They gained leverage only on Jan. 4th. Leverage is leverage, leverage doesn't mean you're the king that makes policies now and you can pass what you want. The leverage was used to get the funding down to 1.3 billion and some other things. They can call that a win.

I am not saying you can't be angry at dems for giving Trump wall funding, even though dems have given Trump wall funding since he's been president. The dems certainly can play hard ball and say we give you nothing and force Trump to veto. That would be the nuclear option, just like declaring national emergency would be the nuclear option for Trump. If you're going to bicker about 1.3 billion (which is not a large amount government spending wise), then in the future the republicans would do the same. They will force legislation to stall if dems do not control the super majority of the house and the senate. Then Guess what? Then it'll actually be true that dems need to control super majority to have a chance at passing DACA legislation. There will be no more bipartisan bills anymore and there will be huge swings in policies depending on who controls the super majority. If no party controls the super majority, congress would be permanently grid locked, which would be most of the time.

It's stupid in the long run to go nuclear just for 1.3 billion and it's stupid for Trump to go nuclear for just 5.7 billion. Dems should have learned their lesson when they removed the 60 vote requirement in the senate to fill federal judge positions. Look at how many federal judges Trump is appointing now (not talking about SCOTUS but federal circuit court judges).

What's for sure now is Dems are showing that they do not want to trade DACA for wall, they want to trade DACA for something else. We don't know how serious they are, it might just be politics. If you're a democrat and you want to trade DACA for something else, the last thing you want to do is go nuclear, piss off the republicans. Then you truly need a super majority to have any chance of a DACA fix. Signs of bipartisanship right now is a requirement for any chance of real DACA legislation to pass in the near future.

Do you want to wait for dems to gain super majority in the senate, keep the majority in the house, gain the presidency, then hopefully with their good graces they do some DACA legislation or do you want something to happen before that? Dems going nuclear for 1.3 billion is pushing for the former, not the latter.

Some of you believe dems cave so the logical flow is that they go nuclear for 1.3 billion, pisses off the republicans, then say "well that sucks, we can't keep the government closed forever so 1.3 billion & no DACA is fine" and reopens up the government. All that's achieved is pissing off the republicans, and brings more anger towards DACA. Therefore, you wouldn't advocate that route, yet people still do. How is it possible for you to believe dems will cave on policies but at the same time believe they will be successful in this "no border money unless you give us DACA"? They'll cave and get nothing, right? How is it possible for you to be angry that dems caved for 1.6, 1.3, whatever amount? They caved, it is expected, why are you angry? Do you get angry when you go grocery shopping and the checkout adds everything correctly? "Hey you idiot, why did you bill me for the correct amount? I want to see your manager!"

As for DACA, both parties use it for votes. Republicans are farming the anti-immigrant voters, dems are farming the moral voters. If republicans think that dems are farming more votes, then the smart thing for republicans to do is take the issue off of 2020 and legalize DACA before 2020 elections.

If you believe dems are farming more votes, why aren't republicans taking the issue away? Why would democrats propose DACA legislation if they're benefiting from this?

If you believe republicans are farming more votes, then everything makes sense. Dems want to take the issue away in 2020 so republicans can't get votes from it, and the republicans aren't bringing it up because they are getting more votes than dems for DACA issue.

So if republicans are getting more votes than dems because of DACA, why is the sentiment that "dems are using us for votes"? No one mentions republicans using dreamers for votes too. It's always dems.

There's actually so many things that don't make sense yet it just is. That, ladies and gentlemen, is politics. Specifically, partisan politics.