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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The News Room

Gutting the Dream Act

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#1
02-09-2012, 11:37 AM
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fl_dreamer
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CHICAGO — During one of the Republican debates in Florida, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney agreed that the only way they’d support the DREAM Act is to take out the educational component.

Coincidentally, the day after the candidates introduced the idea of a path to citizenship for hundreds of thousands of young illegal immigrants only if they serve in the military, Rep. David Rivera, R-Fla., submitted the Adjusted Residency for Military Service (ARMS) Act to the House.

Immigrant advocates across the country have rejected as unfair the premise that illegal immigrant youth should have no alternative other than to put their lives on the line in order to gain citizenship.

What’s really unfair is that such a program would not provide a legitimate pathway for a large proportion of the young immigrants who want the opportunity—and it could have a negative impact on our armed forces.

“Rivera’s bill is a cruel joke,” said Margaret Stock, an Alaska-based immigration lawyer, former professor at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and supporter of the full DREAM Act. “Rivera gives them nine months to enlist, and the only thing I can think of is that he doesn’t know anything about the military cycle.”

Stock told me that an eligible immigrant would have to be extremely lucky to meet the requirements—maintain residence for the past five consecutive years, show intent to enlist in a branch of the U.S. Armed Forces and demonstrate “good moral conduct”—and then actually get into the military.

“On Oct. 1, a whole bunch of slots are available, but it depends on the economy—when it’s bad, there are fewer and they fill up right away. For instance, right now there are no slots left in the Army until next October,” Stock told me. “People are going to pay a ton of money to U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services in upfront fees and adjustment of status fees, have nine months to get enlisted and then once that time runs out and they’ve failed to enlist because there aren’t any slots, they’ll become illegal immigrants again.”

Stock explained that in addition to the high demand for military openings and the expected drawdown of troops, few positions are available to noncitizens due to national security considerations.

“Potentially hundreds of thousands of people will want to try to enlist, but the jobs they’ll be able to do will be low-class jobs. The numbers don’t match up. The U.S. Army, let alone the Navy, Air Force or Marine Corps, don’t need an unlimited supply of people without citizenship,” she said.

Then there are the physical and cultural aspects to joining the military.

Stock notes that a person needs to be in excellent physical and mental condition to be accepted into the military. This brings up the question of what portion of these young people would be fit to serve—many of them have grown up in poverty and, if they are Latino, are likelier than others to be overweight and have respiratory medical conditions or emotional issues due to the stress of living in the country illegally during a time of high deportations.

And would Latino parents, with strict ideas about traditional female roles, even let their daughters try to enlist?

But most alarming is that such an opportunity—while it might be welcome to those willing to do nearly anything for a chance at citizenship—would fundamentally challenge the notion of the volunteer military.

“It turns the concept of an all-volunteer force on its head,” said Stock. “This would be sort of a return to a draft for desperate people who don’t have any other options. If you run the numbers, those paying for the privilege of joining the military will essentially be playing the lottery. It might be a funnel for a very few, very lucky people who will get to enlist, but it would create chaos and a lot of heartbreak.”

A military-only DREAM Act might seem reasonable on its face, but the details sound more like a nightmarish bait-and-switch for desperate young people. It’s an idea that has been considered and rejected before—it should be left for dead once again.

Esther Cepeda is a columnist for the Washington Post Writers Group. Her email address is [email protected].

http://gazettextra.com/news/2012/feb...ing-dream-act/
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#2
02-09-2012, 01:17 PM
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tyler129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fl_dreamer View Post
very lucky people who will get to enlist, but it would create chaos and a lot of heartbreak.”
so what about those who are already heartbroken by government's incompetency and negligence to change the immigration law? leave them the way they are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl_dreamer View Post
A military-only DREAM Act... the details sound more like a nightmarish bait-and-switch for desperate young people.
so she wants this bill shot down bc it takes advantage of desperate young people and she would rather have those desperate young people stay desperate?
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#3
02-09-2012, 03:40 PM
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DreamAK
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The point of the article is that the original DREAM Act is a much better deal all around than this "ARMS Act," which will hardly benefit anyone. But if you think it is cool for a few million people to pay DHS a few thousand bucks each so that they can get temporary "nonimmigrant" status for nine months, go for it. Most of them won't be able to enlist (the military currently only takes about 9000 noncitizens each year, most of whom are green card holders, so at most the military could maybe take a few ARMS people within that 9 month period--the military will prefer the green card holders to the ARMS people since the ARMS people can't naturalize through military service).

When you've paid thousands of dollars to DHS and tried to enlist and found out that you can't enlist because (1) there are no slots left for you, or (2) you're colorblind, have high blood pressure, or the recruiter thinks you're too much trouble . . . You will be wishing that you hadn't supported the ARMS Act. And now that you have a file with DHS, the ICE guys can come get you and deport you quite easily--which the ARMS Act says they are entitled to do, since you failed to enlist in the military within the nine months required by the law.

BTW, under this bill, you not only have to pay DHS thousands of dollars, you have to pay all your back taxes, pay for a medical exam, and show that you had good moral character since you were a baby. So if ever did anything bad in your life, even if you didn't get arrested for it, you can't qualify--but they won't tell you that until after you've paid the thousands of dollars in fees and back taxes.
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#4
02-09-2012, 03:54 PM
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MiGSTeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamAK View Post
The point of the article is that the original DREAM Act is a much better deal all around than this "ARMS Act," which will hardly benefit anyone. But if you think it is cool for a few million people to pay DHS a few thousand bucks each so that they can get temporary "nonimmigrant" status for nine months, go for it. Most of them won't be able to enlist (the military currently only takes about 9000 noncitizens each year, most of whom are green card holders, so at most the military could maybe take a few ARMS people within that 9 month period--the military will prefer the green card holders to the ARMS people since the ARMS people can't naturalize through military service).

When you've paid thousands of dollars to DHS and tried to enlist and found out that you can't enlist because (1) there are no slots left for you, or (2) you're colorblind, have high blood pressure, or the recruiter thinks you're too much trouble . . . You will be wishing that you hadn't supported the ARMS Act. And now that you have a file with DHS, the ICE guys can come get you and deport you quite easily--which the ARMS Act says they are entitled to do, since you failed to enlist in the military within the nine months required by the law.

BTW, under this bill, you not only have to pay DHS thousands of dollars, you have to pay all your back taxes, pay for a medical exam, and show that you had good moral character since you were a baby. So if ever did anything bad in your life, even if you didn't get arrested for it, you can't qualify--but they won't tell you that until after you've paid the thousands of dollars in fees and back taxes.
So what bro? At least we'll have some kind of path that we can take rather than feeling sorry for our situation and calling ourselves "dreamers" forever.

Good thing it's VOLUNTARY right? We can have the ARMS Act ( And all the risk related to it) and you on the other hand can have DAP and all the imaginary stuff that's in it. Eventually DA will pass (no argument about that) but the time it will take would just be too much. When you aged out, you'll realize that you just fought for nothing.
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#5
02-09-2012, 03:58 PM
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DreamAK
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Yeah, well, I think it would be smarter for Obama to let DREAMers enlist right now. He could do that if he wanted to do that--but he hasn't bothered. And under current law (not the ARMS Act), they could get citizenship right away, just like the green card holders do. But yes, it's a free country, so if you want to support a lousy bill that will allow DREAMers to help pay down the deficit before they "self deport," have at it. There's nothing stopping you. Just don't be surprised when the politicians claim that they gave you what you wanted.
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#6
02-09-2012, 03:59 PM
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DreamAK
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ARMS Act is not a pathway to anything worthwhile. It's a path off a cliff for most people.
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#7
02-09-2012, 04:14 PM
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MiGSTeR
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ARMS Act is not a pathway to anything worthwhile. It's a path off a cliff for most people.
Love how you all call a bill that isn't even in its final writing lousy. Give it some time, wait for the final draft before going on the offensive. Try not to sound like Glen Beck and fox news too much.

USA is not compassionate at this moment. Learn how to adapt or be illegal for the rest of your life. I'm sure you are one of those freshman dreamies. Lucky for me I came with a visa.
Last edited by MiGSTeR; 02-09-2012 at 04:19 PM..
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#8
02-09-2012, 04:57 PM
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tyler129
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Quote:
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military currently only takes about 9000 noncitizens each year, most of whom are green card holders.
alright so let those people get legalized. no matter what you say about ARMS Act, it's still better than none of us getting legalized.
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#9
02-09-2012, 05:33 PM
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hollisterco
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u guys arent even paying attention to the big IF you actually get to enlist, they have huge checklists where even the dumbest redneck wouldnt cut it, i can remember meeting 2 or 3 ppl who would b the typical army guy but for whatever reason they where rejected, anything like 'stressed', flat feet, and expect them to be extra careful for 'allegiance issues' so what happens if you get rejected theres nothing to save u then, and thats where the problem lies its easily like a 50 50 that they just wont like you for whatever issue, as it is only 9000 residents signed up last year, even i thought it would be much much higher than that, atleast like 10% of total, and if all their shitty janitor jobs are taken up ur probably gonna be some sort of expeditionary force walking into all the shitholes before they blow up any of the USC's cuz seriously u guys think ud be treated fairly? If we could atleast use our degrees for something inside the army that be great but i wouldnt compare my value to some dumbfucks value, the US isnt the only option any more and as the army times published is getting ready for possible civil unrest as the economy lags behind, 100 years ago the British Empire was the place to be, this Century China will be the place to be, the US just has too much steam still from the last century for it to be noticed but practically everything is made in China today, last i heard Brazil is now actually paying professionals more than theyre paid in the US but havent read up more on that lately, so im all for legalizing, even thru army but 1 what happens if you dont get picked, cuz trust me theyll be much more pickier now plus the plan is to reduce the army to like a tenth in the next 20 years plus, drones, so in itself thats not a very fool proof plan right there, and 2 what sort of jobs could you take cuz more than likely ull have to take the lowest of shit stuff americans dont want to take as always, trust me if its Republican made ur getting ripped off, they dont have a problem ripping off white americans so why would they care about migrants which they dont even hide they hate
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#10
02-09-2012, 05:34 PM
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hollisterco
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another thing, there aint as many dreamers, but if this deal goes thru, u can easily expect to compete with atleast half the 12 million aliens within the country
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