[Opinion]If Dream Act had tougher requirements and exploit us BUT make us legalized.. - Page 2

ABSOLUTELY NOT, Vision. I am afraid that what you propose is highly punitive and renders us as having to pay as a criminal would. EVEN WORSE, it reminds me of how in the Old Testament, God provides a ton of RULES and PENALTIES for ALL SINNERS to be able to come before his presence, since he sees us all as filthy SINNERS. It is so difficult for Protestant white Christians to believe that God can save everyone GRATUITOUSLY, regardless of WORKS AND DEEDS. Instead, we get all these politicians trying to come up with bills that exclude everyone and make us all appear as repentant criminals.

You know, I've thought about having harsher penalties and requirements in the DREAM Act and/or immigration reform, but honestly it doesn't matter -- Republicans wouldn't budge an inch.

It's the principle of the matter for them and nothing will change their minds because they are that stubborn, insensitive, and uncaring. Remember, they scoffed at the concepts of compassion and empathy when Sotomayor was being confirmed and they are consistent in rejecting those concepts in regard to everything else.

"You were unknowingly brought here as a baby, lived as an American all your life, love this country as much as anybody else, have never broken any laws, and just want the chance to apply for documents so that you can work hard, contribute to society, and earn a meager living in the short time that we have on planet earth? I don't give a shit -- illegal is illegal, go away."

They get hard-ons for strict law enforcement (except when it comes to their own, like the Bush administration's possible crimes). I don't think harsher penalties would be helpful for us at all. We're dealing with irrational, hateful people here.

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understandable, however, with DA passed there is a new category of loans we could apply for, federal based loans, which not only would it mean that you'd have dozens of years to pay for the 4 year college education but do not start paying until several months after graduating and interest is tax deductible.

Furthermore, the ability to apply for more scholarships could offset a huge amount of the money we are currently paying right now, at least some of us.

But yeah, I agree, that imposing such a huge sum would be highly unreasonable, they would need to give us a pretty long amount of time to meet those requirements, at least a couple years, just because there's other stuff we need to do to support ourselves.

The higher taxation sounds a bit (perhaps very) unreasonable when coupled with the extravagant fine, how about either or? For example the option to pay the fine immediately or accept the higher tax rate until the fine is fully paid (or rather yet, pay it like one would pay a loan, in small parts over a long amount of time), then it would be more reasonable.
5-10k is very unrealistic for a group of people that have to, at the moment, work underground and potentially get wages below the minimum mandated by law.

the hours, they are do-able, in fact, its something that I think would be pretty good to do even if it is not required by the DA right now, could support good moral character, maybe, no?

The time frame would have to be changed as well, 6 years is just not enough time to complete a masters if we are assuming the person starts the education from scratch, in fact it would be redundant to suggest to complete a bachelors or masters, since you need a bachelors before commencing the masters, and people would have to have graduated from american high schools.

Furthermore, considering there are majors that take 5 years maybe more if the students fall behind (i.e., architecture has been known to take at least 5 years in my school), perhaps change the time frame to 8-9 years, which would likely not pass, I think the current education requirements are sufficient as they are right now.

your comment raises a question though. What would happen if there is an emergency before completing the 2 years of college currently mandated, which would render it unlikely to complete that requirement and perhaps unlikely to apply to the military, an accident?
I would think such emergencies would be considered on an individual basis, perhaps.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. It's tempting to want to compromise whatever you can just to gain passage. However, like deft already said, the bill is basically written and doesn't really deviate from that.

Besides, it's been watered down already from the very first introduction to the present day. The very first version actually made us eligible for financial aid. Now the only things we qualify for is loans and work study (and scholarships, of course).

You can only water it down so much before you defeat the purpose of the bill and render it effectively dead. Which, by the way, is a tactic that is always tried by the opposition.

Been busy finding jobs and working hard in school and just checking my thread after having been absence for awhile.

Some person even took serious about this and even gave me a negative rep.

Anyway, you guys didn't have to take those numbers literally. $5000-10K was just an example as well as other conditions.

I just wanted to hear people's response in different situations. I hope some people become a little bit more open minded (most of you were tho. thx)

Personally, I really bet many people would really do anything to get even $10K if DA is to pass like this month or even tomorrow.

10K is too much? yeah, it sure is for all of us who even have hard time getting a job without papers. But what about time factor? Wait till 2011? That's like another 20+ months of living like a prisoner without SSN and getting underpaid. Or how about get SSN and have a quick path to citizenship.

And maybe like someone mentioned that option of either paying like 5K or if that is not possible, then maybe higher taxes another other option in a given time.

Anyway I found some interesting replies. Thanks guys.

I think it's strict as is.
I mean especially the fines. Maybe it's because we're not rich, but honestly, I think we will have troubling coming up with $3000 for me and my brother alone. But if they increase the fine, there's like absolutely 0% chance that we will be legalized.
My mom was trying to save up some money in case DA/CIR passes, but we couldn't because we were in so much debt we just can't afford to save.

I think adding any extra rules or requirements will make the bill unfair. It's already going to benefit a very small number of people, why make it even more difficult? It's like we have to crawl through all these obstacles (paying extra, better grades, etc) just so we can please have an SSN. Come on, we're trying to keep our dignity intact. Don't know if I made any sense.

I would think there will be a screening on a case by case situation where you have to prove that you were brought over to the states by your family or adult, and prove with documents that you lived here and graduated from high school here. I would think it would be tougher to prove your case if you were older when you came to the states, especially those starting high school.

When people said illegal immigrant never pay tax...
Well as far as I know the last time I pay tax is I went to walmart, buying a pair of shoes. On my bill, it wrote shoe $20, sale tax $1.40. I don't have choice to choose whether to pay it or not, otherwise I can't get my shoes.

About the age requirement or how long you have been in here....
Let say you have been in here before age 16 and stay in USA for at least 6 years. What I heard is: after you get in this country before 16, try to hide yourself away from border patrol for 6 years. Then you can get your citizenship.

I personally don't like about criminal record thing. I believe everybody should deserve a chance even they commit a crime. Evey the bible advocates it. This is my personal opinion.

one last thing to say, when I was in high school. I talked to a anti-illegal immigrant person(he didn't know I am illegal). He told me he hates illegal immigrant. He said they are criminal and they sucked up the government money.

Please note the difference between him and me. I was in a regular high school. He was in a high school that only for selected people(you have to be evaluated as high IQ kid in order to go it)

Few months later, he forgot to do his homework and he skipped school... Now who is wasting money?