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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The Lounge

Can ICE arrest you without probable cause

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#1
01-09-2014, 06:49 AM
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After reading about ICE workplace and home raids, it appears to me that ICE does not need reasonable suspicion or probable cause to arrest somebody. Can they arrest you without any probable cause hinting that you are illegal? Like say for example you are an illegal alien walking down the street. Can they stop and question you and then take you to jail if you refuse to answer their questions?

At this link (http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc...ng-an-ice-raid), it says that they do need probable cause to arrest you but that was the only information I found relating to this.

Do any of you have personal experience or knowledge about this?

Thanks!
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#2
01-09-2014, 08:43 PM
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Anyone know? I'm really curious about this.
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#3
01-10-2014, 02:58 AM
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#4
01-10-2014, 08:36 AM
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Wouldn't every individual officer's idea of what "probable cause" be different ?
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#5
01-10-2014, 01:47 PM
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If you're just walking down the street minding your own business, the police (or the ICE, or any law enforcement officer) must have a specific reason why they are stopping you in the first place, it's called 'reasonable suspicion'. No, just being of a certain skin color is not an acceptable reason for suspicion.

Many states have what's called a "stop and identify" statute that requires any person stopped by the police to identify himself. Failure to do so is typically a misdemeanor that would justify an arrest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

The most important question to ask is "am I free to go", because the officer's answer determines whether he's just talking to you, or he's formally detaining you. If he's detaining you the officer has to state his reasonable suspicion later. If he doesn't have any reasonable suspicion that will hold up in court, he is likely to say that you're free to go. At this point you're off the hook and you should thank the stars for a lucky day.

If he says you can't go, that means he has reasonable suspicion that he can use in court, and then you have to identify yourself. No law requires you to carry an ID, so if you so choose you can simply give your name, address, and date of birth. They will run your name on the database, and if they can't find it they can detain you on the suspicion that you're giving them false information. If you get to this point you're basically screwed either way.
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#6
01-10-2014, 04:12 PM
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Hmmm a funny story, I knew someone who was working at an ICE office cleaning up at night. This persona worked there for years illegal and quit after moving states. So, ICE does need a reason to stop you and check, for a while police would check your status up and transfer you over to ICE if you didn't have a proper status.
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#7
01-10-2014, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudless View Post
If you're just walking down the street minding your own business, the police (or the ICE, or any law enforcement officer) must have a specific reason why they are stopping you in the first place, it's called 'reasonable suspicion'. No, just being of a certain skin color is not an acceptable reason for suspicion.

Many states have what's called a "stop and identify" statute that requires any person stopped by the police to identify himself. Failure to do so is typically a misdemeanor that would justify an arrest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

The most important question to ask is "am I free to go", because the officer's answer determines whether he's just talking to you, or he's formally detaining you. If he's detaining you the officer has to state his reasonable suspicion later. If he doesn't have any reasonable suspicion that will hold up in court, he is likely to say that you're free to go. At this point you're off the hook and you should thank the stars for a lucky day.

If he says you can't go, that means he has reasonable suspicion that he can use in court, and then you have to identify yourself. No law requires you to carry an ID, so if you so choose you can simply give your name, address, and date of birth. They will run your name on the database, and if they can't find it they can detain you on the suspicion that you're giving them false information. If you get to this point you're basically screwed either way.
Awesome answer! What rights do you have during a workplace or home raid? Without reasonable suspicion, are you still required to show proof of legal residence?
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#8
01-10-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith View Post
Hmmm a funny story, I knew someone who was working at an ICE office cleaning up at night. This persona worked there for years illegal and quit after moving states. So, ICE does need a reason to stop you and check, for a while police would check your status up and transfer you over to ICE if you didn't have a proper status.
Hahaha that's hilarious, do you know if the police still do that?
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#9
01-10-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longj View Post
Awesome answer! What rights do you have during a workplace or home raid? Without reasonable suspicion, are you still required to show proof of legal residence?
When ICE raids a house or a business site, they are typically armed with a warrant signed by a judge. That warrant means a judge has agreed that there's a probable cause. If they decide to cart you off in a raid, you're screwed.

The reason you need to ask "am I free to go" is to determine if you need to answer their questions about your identity. If you are free to go, then you DO NOT need to say anything, just go. If they have reasonable suspicion and you're not free to go, then in states with a 'stop and identify' statute you need to give your name, address, date of birth, or other identifying information.
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#10
01-10-2014, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longj View Post
Hahaha that's hilarious, do you know if the police still do that?


I believe they still do, depends on your state. Washington is still doing that. My mother mentioned to me how one of her friends was deported that way. He was driving and got stop over by the cops for a back light not working. JUST for that. So he told him to fix it but then for the hell of decided to "check" his status, nothing came out and he reported him to ICE and bam he was gone. However, I think in Washington something passed that police can't be doing this. Arizona was or IS still doing that
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