Does using a fake SSN hurt an american citizen? - Page 3

Obviously you and IamAman read things one way and I read things another way. I didn't really think the original post was that bad because Vargas has used fake documents (not SSN but other ones) and that's just the truth. Most of us get it and just see it as one of the necessities of our status but apparently the OP does not see it that way. I didn't really see his question as an issue because I feel it is a valid question.

Yes there is a difference between a fake SSN and one that has been doctored like in Vargas' case. Again, I never said Vargas used a fake SSN. I said he used fake documents (which he has, like a green card and passport). I also said he doctored an SSN. I never said he used a fake SSN or doctored a fake SSN!

I am not talking about you right now but OP. If we go back to the subject of this thread it has been answer that no it does not by the proof we have seen not affecting it.

How is this libelous? This is an internet chat. What are his "damages?" What is at stake? He certainly doesn't look like he's missed a meal... The courts would laugh at him.

Also, he did use a fake SSN card. It wasn't someone else's, but he was presenting doctored copies (fake) of the card he had. Although not as morally reprehensible, what he was using was fake.

I agree no one is hurt by what he did in fact he helps pay taxes by using his fake card.

Going back to the OP. I don't know how much experience you have with using a fake SSN, but some of us who have done it or have witnessed it first hand, will tell you that it's not that big of a deal. It's almost as relevant as driving without a drivers license. You have to remember that some end up with a SSN that does not exist while other simply pay for the right to use someone else's SSN (yes there are people who make a living by lending their SSN). In these cases, the government turns a blind eye (as long as you pay your taxes with your ITIN and immigration cares even less). Some employers believe that illegal immigrants are better workers than whites so they will BS the "background check." I've seen first hand how nice restaurants such as Cheesecake Factory or Red Robin will employ a whole kitchen staff of illegal immigrants just cause they will work harder, not complain and work shitty hours for just a little over minimum wage. I've seen first hand how some chefs or kitchen managers will try to hire an illegal immigrant whom they know is a good cook over someone who just graduated culinary school. In the end, when it comes to using a SSN everyone turns a blind eye for their benefit.

It is only "not a big deal" to unscrupulous employers and those gaining employment through fraud. I assure you, it is very much a "big deal" to the victims whose number was stolen. If the U.S. government had not become so corrupt, SS fraud would not be tolerated, and violators would be prosecuted accordingly. It is a federal offense to duplicate a SS card, steal identities, or use a fake SSN. This country is becoming incredibly lawless. No one benefits from that.

Employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens are greedy and unethical. Otherwise, they would comply with Immigration, Labor and IRS laws, and conduct business in a lawful manner. Yes, they have a preference for illegal labor. You indicated a few reasons. Likewise, former plantation owners had a preference for slave labor. Illegal aliens are not superior workers. That is not the reason they are hired. They are in great demand because they are exploitable, and companies can enjoy greater profits. How anyone can condone this is beyond me.

So, to answer the OP's question, yes, indeed it DOES hurt U.S. citizens. But, lately, no one seems to care about citizens. As long as they can get what they want, all is well. I personally know a citizen who has been fighting with the IRS for years over "unreported income" and "unpaid taxes." You can't imagine the unnecessary stress and expense involved in fighting the IRS. The IRS even issued a lien and garnished their wages. That's what happens when hundreds fraudulently "borrow" a citizen's SSN. And, don't believe a "fake" SSN is always fake. Those numbers are often valid, assigned to a citizen.

Your flippant attitude is astonishing. Do you actually not realize each time a SSN is stolen, a human being is harmed? Or, do you simply not care?

It is a big series deal indeed. Indentify thief can destroyed the lives of people. . And lawless? Yeah you clearly have never been outside of the USA if you really believe this country is becoming lawless. Many people here especially our users from Iraq and Afghanistan believe their countries became lawless thanks to the USA.

Of course, I realize the U.S. is not the most lawless country in the world. However, you are contradicting yourself. On one hand, you defend the reputation of the USA by comparing the level of lawlessness here with that of other countries. The implication being, I haven't visited other countries, and have no knowledge of their lifestyle or culture. You are sorely mistaken. I have traveled extensively.

On the other hand, you contend the U.S. had a negative influence on other countries. So, which is it? Is the U.S. the beacon of virtue, or a perpetrator of destruction and corruption on other countries?

The fact that there are other countries with more lawlessness does not negate lawlessness in this country. There are also countries with a higher infant mortality rate than the US. That still doesn't change the fact that the U.S. rate is unacceptable. It simply means one is more or less than the other. But, both are negative; as is lawlessness.

I do find it rather interesting that the posters from Iraq and Afghanistan, whom apparently hold a negative view of this country, would choose to remain here. As you said, this is a big world. Why remain in a country for which such contempt is felt?

OP should be deported, we should all be deported according to his beliefs. Case closed.

Agreed, it is a serious issue. Most immigrants I know have their own due to prior USCIS applications. Actually, INS (now known as USCIS) gave them away to all immigrants entering the country, tourist or not, in the early 1990s.

Jose Vargas had an SSN that was unique and issued to him so the subject of stealing or using a fake SSN never touched him.

The U.S is both. I haven't replied to your other responses since I haven't had enough time, but I always wonder why any country including the U.S ever has to create this false dichotomy of either good or bad. U.S foreign policy has been both over centuries. In some cases, it has shaped the geopolitical direction for the better when it joined World War II. In other cases, most recently Iraq and Afghanistan, it's foreign policy has destabilized a region to the point where its original intention of fighting terrorism has actually emboldened terrorists cells and created negative perceptions of U.S hegemonic influence.

This nation is imperfect. There are incredible amount of opportunities available, but there exists a growing wealth inequity that mirrors many developing countries around the world.

Just as some Americans lashed out at Muslims or had ill opinions about Islam after 9/11, you will see the same type of reaction on the part of Iraqis and Afghanis who have been through many episodes of bombings, blasts, and deaths of family members and friends.

It's interesting because this begs the whole issue of patriotism, especially on the part of American citizens. Any person who basically did not believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or weren't keen on invading Iraq or Afghanistan were seen as unpatriotic or hated America. 13 years later, everyone is tired of the wars and the billions of dollars that have gone to sustain them at the expense of America and American citizens. Therefore, is critiquing American foreign policy mean that a person hates America and should leave? If we had more critics about American foreign policy, how many billions of dollars could the U.S have saved itself? Vietnam? Iraq?

Naming someone's name and saying they are using someone else's SSN when it's 100% false is libel. You don't have to be an internet lawyer to know that. Straw man arguments don't change that.