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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The Lounge

My idea to reform immigration. - Page 11

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#101
11-12-2012, 11:24 AM
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Lol workin under the table will always exist. E verify wont catch that.

A guest worker program could help. I know plenty of people that dont really like living in the US but they come just because the wages in Mexico are that bad.

If the US truly wants to control illegal immigration they need to work with other countries to make sure their citizens are earning a decent living. I know its easier said than done and there are a multitude of variables here but there isnt any other way. Not building a fence nor some ID impossible to forge. If we had been able to live a decent life back in Mexico we wouldve stayed. Its as simple as that.
Last edited by jrpallares; 11-12-2012 at 11:27 AM..
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#102
11-12-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Why would you prioritize visa overstays? You could argue than more than EWI's they were more aware that they were breaking the law.

Yes, I was aware that I was going to overstay my visa in 1985 when I was 1 1/2 years old.

Quote:
I don't understand why some of you want to support things like everify. Now that you are legally illegal. Why would you turn on your own? or future immigrants. Makes no sense.
I don't understand this either, it would leave a lot of older immigrants that aged out in the cold.
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#103
11-12-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choukette View Post
Give amnesty to all undocumented/unlawful in this country
cancel the DV lotteryand employer based green cards for the next ten years
fine people depending on number of years they were illegally here
crack down hard on the border and inside the country
The bold parts I don't agree with. First of all, never should amnesty be given to all undocumented people. What if they're criminals? ONLY grant amnesty if they've kept out of trouble, paid taxes, and gotten a college degree (something along these lines). I don't want illegal gangsters getting amnesty.

Second, employer based green cards are fine because they're bringing in talented and educated people. They're a much better asset to the economy than your average person. Canceling the DV lottery is fine because it's just stupid. It's crazy/unfair that people get green cards just because they bring "diversity" to an already diverse country. Diversity doesn't do sh*t for an economy.
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#104
11-12-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choukette View Post
Give amnesty to all undocumented/unlawful in this country
cancel the DV lottery and employer based green cards for the next ten years
fine people depending on number of years they were illegally here
crack down hard on the border and inside the country
It is ridiculous to cancel employment-based green cards. People in this category typically qualify through H-1B visa, which is only available for skilled workers with at least a 4-year college degree; a higher standard than DACA and DREAM Act. About a quarter have master's or doctorate degree from U.S. universities, which means spending a lot of $ on U.S. universities paying out-of-state tuition rate as F-1 students. They come legally and stay legally the entire time, and now they have to step aside to legalize undocumented immigrants with less qualifications? As it stands today, there's already a backlog of 6 to 10 years for employment based green card applicants.

I support legalizing undocumented people, but not if it means throwing other legal immigrants like me under the bus. If you're asking for compassion, you should show that you are capable of compassion as well.
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#105
11-12-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinAgainstTheWind View Post
1. If I used the word illegal than my bad but I don't see where. I try my hardest not to do it.
2.Older people are already waived from english requirements and citizen test requirements. So, I am talking working age. Because that is mostly who is going to be affected by e-verify.
3. I don't think e-verify will help at all. It is just going to lead to more abuse of people. Even in large business and corporations I think it will increase people working under the table with no security at all.
4. It will do what it has done in places where it has been implemented such as hotels. It made hotels fire a bunch of workers that they had hired. Most of those workers received some benefits through the hotels. So, what do hotels do they hire cleaning people through contractors. what do contractors do they hire those same women fired, but offer them less protections. Why because they don't have to implement e-verify.
5. If all employers are forced to use e-verify including contractors what do you think they are going to do. Hire people under the table. It is just going to create more black market industries.

When I am talking about protections and benefits I don't even mean healthcare and all that other good stuff like 401k plans. I mean the basics-bathroom breaks, lunch breaks, etc. sick days.

I am all for the earn legalization part. However, I don't think CIR or any other immigration reform is going to take care of immigration.
-----------------------------
On another point because we are discussing the possibility of estimated 11 million people being legalized. I am not sure how long it will take for all of them to be processed and if we support e-very con-currently with CIR. We run the risk that e-verify will have an implementation date before all of the 11 million people are processed. If they are taking forever to process 200,000 applications so far. Imagine 11 million people.

1) You wrote illegal immigration just like i did. I used the word illegal in substitute of undocumented one time. But again, sorry im not going to feel bad for using a word that has no affect on me.

2) Ok, i wouldnt be opposed to that. I think if theyre working a city job or whatever the case may be, they must know english. Thats without a question.

3) Large corporations would be less likely to hire if they faced penalties. Also, i dont see why a large corporation would want to hire undocumented folks that dont have the credentials. Are you talking about mundane jobs like janitorial (no offense, it is hard work) or something? If they are exemplary individuals who can make significant contributions, then i think that hiring people with needed skill should be apart of the expansion plan.

4) Theres no denying that people will fall through the cracks, the bigger idea is that not many people will. If things go accordingly, then very few people should be in our current status situation.

5) Somewhere along the long chain there will be a defect that will eventually be found. Again, if things were implemented and there was expansion, people that will fall through the cracks can be very little. There is never any permanent solution to anything in life, its not just dealing with immigration or law. It relates to everything.

Nothing will take care of immigration. The only thing you can do is make it harder and harder. So why not make it easier right? Well think of the consequences that would come about if there was an influx of 50 million people from latin america / overstays that came here and couldnt find work and didnt leave.
-------

Yes, i agree that it will take a very long time. They will have to hire ridiculous amounts of people to speed up the processing not to mention the people already on "life". Im pretty sure i said this before but either e-verify should be implemented after the process is done, or if people are guaranteed by applying, there should be some alternate route for them to get registered/checked with the e-verify system. Ofcourse anything we say now is speculation, but for instance, the receipt number which everyone got relatively quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycap View Post
All I know is E-Verify does hurt.

Speaking out of experience, it has effectively destroyed my chances at making more than minimum wage multiple times. I can see how it can discourage people from working without permission, yet I could also see people doing even more to get around it - Much like immigrants "borrowing" a family member's documents to join the military.

Also... can't we all just... get along? There's so much infighting in these forums, that it's making me sick.
If people werent in our situation, there would be no reason to go behind it. People will always slip through the cracks no matter what. Its not only in this system, its for every system you can think of.

I dont consider this fighting...i consider it a healthy debate where two people are expressing their points. I dont have animosity towards FlyinAgainstTheWind...i havent called him any names, sent him any rude messages or said anything that would attack him directly. I only questioned his ideas and disputed what I did not agree with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AB323 View Post
I don't understand this either, it would leave a lot of older immigrants that aged out in the cold.
If you read what i wrote earlier, i said that they should implement e-verify after they give those who are eligible a path which makes them eligible to work.
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Last edited by MDxOD; 11-12-2012 at 08:57 PM..
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#106
11-12-2012, 09:13 PM
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Even all of us in the same boat, supposedly wanting the same things for immigration can't agree on a feasible method of reform... And we wonder why CIR hasn't passed...
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#107
11-12-2012, 09:32 PM
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The creator of this post sounds like a typical Hispanic hypocrite. Now that we finally have some sort of "legal" status here we somehow are better than other immigrants?? How do you have the nerve to say that the US should stop issuing visas for 10 years? Do you not understand that there are literally millions of immigrants around the world that depend on those Visas? We entered this country illegally as children without a say in the matter BUT I can't say that I would do the same as an adult knowing that I was breaking the law and the consequences. But regardless of that, how could YOU suggest closing the border? What about immigrants like our parents that came here out of sheer desperation? But hey I guess since you have permission to work here it gives you the right to say " they took are jobs". I give our generation a few years until we start feeling as entitled as Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and Dominicans.
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#108
11-12-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDxOD View Post
1) You wrote illegal immigration just like i did. I used the word illegal in substitute of undocumented one time. But again, sorry im not going to feel bad for using a word that has no affect on me.

2) Ok, i wouldnt be opposed to that. I think if theyre working a city job or whatever the case may be, they must know english. Thats without a question.

3) Large corporations would be less likely to hire if they faced penalties. Also, i dont see why a large corporation would want to hire undocumented folks that dont have the credentials. Are you talking about mundane jobs like janitorial (no offense, it is hard work) or something? If they are exemplary individuals who can make significant contributions, then i think that hiring people with needed skill should be apart of the expansion plan.

4) Theres no denying that people will fall through the cracks, the bigger idea is that not many people will. If things go accordingly, then very few people should be in our current status situation.

5) Somewhere along the long chain there will be a defect that will eventually be found. Again, if things were implemented and there was expansion, people that will fall through the cracks can be very little. There is never any permanent solution to anything in life, its not just dealing with immigration or law. It relates to everything.

Nothing will take care of immigration. The only thing you can do is make it harder and harder. So why not make it easier right? Well think of the consequences that would come about if there was an influx of 50 million people from latin america / overstays that came here and couldnt find work and didnt leave.
-------

Yes, i agree that it will take a very long time. They will have to hire ridiculous amounts of people to speed up the processing not to mention the people already on "life". Im pretty sure i said this before but either e-verify should be implemented after the process is done, or if people are guaranteed by applying, there should be some alternate route for them to get registered/checked with the e-verify system. Ofcourse anything we say now is speculation, but for instance, the receipt number which everyone got relatively quickly.



If people werent in our situation, there would be no reason to go behind it. People will always slip through the cracks no matter what. Its not only in this system, its for every system you can think of.

I dont consider this fighting...i consider it a healthy debate where two people are expressing their points. I dont have animosity towards FlyinAgainstTheWind...i havent called him any names, sent him any rude messages or said anything that would attack him directly. I only questioned his ideas and disputed what I did not agree with.




If you read what i wrote earlier, i said that they should implement e-verify after they give those who are eligible a path which makes them eligible to work.
1.)Ok. Go ahead and keep using illegal. I just think that at the national level people have been working very hard to get people like fox news to not use it. When you live in a more immigrant friendly state is not an issue but when you live in a place like AZ damn it stings. I think you might be young, but for those of us that were in elementary school when prop. 187 came on it still hurts.

Going on to point 3
1.) Your assuming large corporations only hire scientist and engineers. They have floors, offices, and bathrooms that need cleaning. They have crap shipped and need people to unload it. They need large amounts of parts inspected so they need people that can sit at microscopes for long hours and just follow procedural steps.

on points 4 & 5 plenty of people fell through the cracks when the IRCA came on and are still trying to fix their status. Last time CIR came up there was a big discussion over the people that came the last 5-10 years. Some of those are not going to make it.

I agree we need a healthy discussion and I don't mind. Because we will argue the same thing with anti-immigrant groups. It is good practice.

Here are the major issues that came with CIR last time
Agjobs- Half of the US is agricultural & half of my state CA is too. They want visas for agricultural workers ( so no they are not just looking for engineers)
Family unification- On the pro-immigrant side--want I waivers expanded and people to be able to petition for family members. They want 10 year bar removed. On the anti-immigrant side-Anybody that is able to fix their status through CIR and DREAM will not be allowed to petition for anybody in the future.
Lenght of Stay- People that just arrived 5 years ago are basically not eligible and must return to their home countries.
Conditional Visa versus LPR status-People will be given a conditional visa to prove they are worthy citizens. After a certain amount of time they will be allowed to adjust status. Their status for being allowed to become citizens will also be longer. The estimated amount of time to become a citizen will probably be 10-15 years.
------------------------
As the current system stands if an LPR petitions you. You wait 6 years to become a ctizen. If a citizen petitions you all you wait is 4.

PS. Why do you assume I am a guy. Just because I have a strong opinion does not mean I have nuts. I am very much a girl.
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#109
11-13-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinAgainstTheWind View Post
1.)Ok. Go ahead and keep using illegal. I just think that at the national level people have been working very hard to get people like fox news to not use it. When you live in a more immigrant friendly state is not an issue but when you live in a place like AZ damn it stings. I think you might be young, but for those of us that were in elementary school when prop. 187 came on it still hurts.

Going on to point 3
1.) Your assuming large corporations only hire scientist and engineers. They have floors, offices, and bathrooms that need cleaning. They have crap shipped and need people to unload it. They need large amounts of parts inspected so they need people that can sit at microscopes for long hours and just follow procedural steps.

on points 4 & 5 plenty of people fell through the cracks when the IRCA came on and are still trying to fix their status. Last time CIR came up there was a big discussion over the people that came the last 5-10 years. Some of those are not going to make it.

I agree we need a healthy discussion and I don't mind. Because we will argue the same thing with anti-immigrant groups. It is good practice.

Here are the major issues that came with CIR last time
Agjobs- Half of the US is agricultural & half of my state CA is too. They want visas for agricultural workers ( so no they are not just looking for engineers)
Family unification- On the pro-immigrant side--want I waivers expanded and people to be able to petition for family members. They want 10 year bar removed. On the anti-immigrant side-Anybody that is able to fix their status through CIR and DREAM will not be allowed to petition for anybody in the future.
Lenght of Stay- People that just arrived 5 years ago are basically not eligible and must return to their home countries.
Conditional Visa versus LPR status-People will be given a conditional visa to prove they are worthy citizens. After a certain amount of time they will be allowed to adjust status. Their status for being allowed to become citizens will also be longer. The estimated amount of time to become a citizen will probably be 10-15 years.
------------------------
As the current system stands if an LPR petitions you. You wait 6 years to become a ctizen. If a citizen petitions you all you wait is 4.

PS. Why do you assume I am a guy. Just because I have a strong opinion does not mean I have nuts. I am very much a girl.

1) I do live in an immigrant friendly state, and no, i am not young. I was also in elementary school in '94. And yes, I will continue to use the term "Illegal Immigration" while using the word illegal and undocumented interchangeably (i do use both, actually i use undoc. more than illegal).

3) Yes, so you were talking about those types of positions (which i mentioned). Ofcourse those people (cleaning staff etc...) will be checked out as well. Believe it or not, those people make upward 25 dollars an hour. I've read several articles in the past about google janitors making 60-70k a year.

4&5) yeah i've read about those as well, but the reality of the situation is that no matter what happens, people will always fall through the cracks that come here after. Even those who arent eligible, will look for work arounds because they've been here and its probably hard to go back to a life they potentially fear. Its all about maximizing the way CIR works and minimizing the loop holes so that when people do fall through, there would be millions of them.


I agree with some of what was posted and i dont agree with some. I probably wont get into it here because it will also just involve me explaining my thought process and my ideas for immigration reform. But the truth is my ideas will never surface because i am not nor will I be in a position where they matter. I will say this, I think that any future restrictions on people who are beneficiares of CIR who have become permanent residents / USC's is bad. DA User proposed having those who adjusted with CIR pay higher tax rates all the time. I think thats a bad idea. Just like not allowing CIR beneficiaries who become citizens in a decade or two from applying for family members. That process takes a long time anyway, better they do it the right way than trying to bring them across the border or have them overstay their visas.

------------------

My apologies there. I could have sworn i say someone else refer to you as a guy so i did the same. I never assume someone to be a boy or a girl for the most part, and I was never trying to imply that a female wouldnt be capable of such opinions or making good arguments. But if i do assume someone to be a male, its probably because in my 4 years on here, pre-daca, most of the people I have spoken to were male.
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#110
01-15-2013, 03:50 AM
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I believe that even though i am undocumented as are my loving parents, one cannot simply ignore the immigration laws of a country, get in and expect to get amnesty years down the line, won't solve anything. Reagan did that, did it solve the problem of illegal immigration? nope, here we are with the same problem. Also, let's get real, republicans will never approve anything that is clearly straight up amnesty BUT they need to give us a chance/path(I don't see "paying" for your crime by a means of a "path" as amnesty, that is retribution in my eyes) seeing as we are the fastest growing demographic...if they expect to win future presidencies, they better be nice to us, several republicans have realized this and have begun taking action. Let's not be biased just because we are on this side of the issue. We have to account on what the republican party might be willing to get on board with...this is what i propose(some of these things are already happening):
-Pass the dream act but make it permanent for future children brought here by their parents illegally.
-Anybody with an extensive criminal record be deported.
-Higher investing in border patrol technologies and officials.
-Alot more open discussions with mexican officials regarding a way to help border security and helping mexico achieve goals that will deter illegal immigration to the u.s. and easier to apply for more legal immigration from mexico(it's really hard there) and other countries that have a difficult time applying for legal immigration to the u.s.(this will surely include talks from mexico calling to the u.s. on guns).
-Mayyyybe end the greencard lottery? I just don't get it really :P.
-End the birthright citizenship where you are only allowed to be a u.s. citizen if a parent is a u.s. citizen, not simply born here.
-Put more emphasis on worker programs for those that only want to come to the u.s. to work.
-Make it harder to work in the u.s. illegally by expanding on systems like e-verify or other similar systems.
For those who are not dreamers but undocumented AND future undocumented peoples:
-For those who have a clean record, pay taxes, hardworking citizens, have been living here for at least 10 years(or another determined amount of time), give a path to legal residency which would probably include paying fines, back taxes, or other arduous tasks, such as a provisionary period where they can't leave the country for a year, commit a crime, etc. or else they forfeit their legalization process or also...what else can you think of? i don't know...make them do 20 push ups, run a mile and sing the star spangled banner. Those that do not meet the requirements can pursue litigation in court or otherwise be deported. Make this a permanent law for future undocumented immigrants.
-End that stupid 3/10 year ban, it does not keep people out, instead it keeps them in. I know for the longest time(before deferred action was introduced) i wanted to leave the country to pursue my own ambitions legally in another country, but i could not bring myself to leave due to the fear that i would not see/visit my parents for 10 years, I am sure i am not the only person that has faced the same situation. Not only that but those that would want to pursue a possible action to leave the country and apply legally can't do so because they would not be able to apply for 10 years, so why leave? Why leave and "get in the back of the line" as Romney said and go on about it the legal way, if there is at least a 10 year wait? zero incentive there.

Bonus(more of a state thing really but POTUS could have a say in there to encourage states):
-Allow anybody to apply for a drivers license even if its with a special sticker or whatever for undocumented people, the point is that we want safer roads to drive in with licensed people, people that have identification, and insurance!

No matter what laws get passed, one very important thing to understand is that illegal immigration CANNOT be stopped completely. What needs to happen are solutions that can not only deter LESS illegal immigration now, but in the FUTURE as well. And on top of that, allow those hardworking people now and in the future that make the country a better place, to have a chance/opportunity/path to live without of fear, abuse, and restraint...the exact opposite thing this country was founded on...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. One deciding to enter the U.S. illegally will surely think twice before putting themselves in such a hard situation, but if they decide to do so(which will happen), there must be a solution to that in place that addresses these people, otherwise we will always have to keep addressing this issue every 30 years.
I welcome criticism and/or additions to my proposal.
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