Some thoughts, our lobbying efforts, future?? - Page 2

I agree. A new national dialogue needs to happen. But we need to frame the debate and the issue.

Below is a discussion via email I had with James Carafano from Heritage.org regarding his article bashing the DREAM Act.
Typically, he writes in his article about illegal immigration and how bad it is, he lies about provisions in the DREAM Act, does not address what should be done with these kids, and offers NO solution.

Below is our exchange regarding his article. He actually wrote me back a few times, which I thought was interesting.
It's in reverse order, though. So start at the bottom. He will not address anything specific. He speaks in terms that Numbers and ALIPAC would applaud. Very typical.






I agree. A new national dialogue needs to happen. We need to expand it. I had an exchange with Dr. Carafano from Heritage.org. I'll past it below. He's typical in that he writes an article bashing the DREAM Act, but only uses the same old lines for his arguments: "rule of law", "amnesty", "legal immigration", etc. But he doesn't specifically addresss the provis
I simply do not your criticism if you want details there are dozen of
papers on immigration on the heritage web site, sorry but i can not have
a detailed discussion with you on my blackberry




Justin Gross wrote:
I do appreciate your response on the Blackberry. Thank you.
I've read the articles on Heritage.org. But they are all the same. They don't deal with specifics, only broad stroke, black and white, yes and no, Illegal=Deport, mentalities.
There's more and real conservative, innovative thought does not come through.

When you are ready to give me specifics, I would love to have them. Please answer my questions when you are able to sit at a computer, not on your Blackberry. I know it's difficult to be detailed that way.

Thank you, Dr. Carafano. I'm not giving up on DREAM.

Justin Gross

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Gross <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:45 AM
To: Carafano, James <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: To Dr. James Jay Carafano

Dr. Carafano,
With all due respect, you only give blanket arguments or reasons
without offering a solution for this specific population. Have you ever
met any kids in this situation? Or is your position merely academic? I
appreciate your response, but your responses are simplistic and only
seem to be in lock-step with groups such as NumbersUSA and ALIPAC;
fringe, but extremely vocal anti-immigration groups that, unfortunately, seem
to frame the debate.
If the average American were to really understand the DREAM Act and
who it benefited, why, and how, I believe it would have majority
support.

Oh, and about the "rule of law" argument; it is the law that these
kids receive a K-12 education already. That education indoctrinates
those kids into American culture. It makes them, culturally, American.
This is why I want you to meet some of these kids. Also, it always
angers me when Presidents issue Presidential Pardons, usurping the "rule of
law" that was initially administered.

Let me know your real solution and when you want to meet some of
these young people.

Justin Gross

"Carafano, James" <[email protected]> wrote:
Legalization only encourages further illegal entry, in contrast
creating more legal opportunities for individuals to come here offers an
alternative that respects the rule of law and promotes opportunity in the
end its more fair and compassionate than this legislation

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Gross
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:20 AM
To: Carafano, James
Subject: RE: To Dr. James Jay Carafano

Do you know any kids that would benefit from the DREAM Act? With the
right provisions, the DREAM Act would not encourage more unlawful
presence, whatever that means. How do you encourage "more presence"? Are you
talking numbers? Or more time spent here?

I urge you to meet young people in this situation. Rather than taking
the tired old black and white view of the issue, you might learn
something and realize that the DREAM Act would actually be good for America.

Answer this question: Is it appropriate for the US government to spend
billions of dollars on war equipment for Iraq, only to send the
merchandise back to the manufacturer, unutilized, and paid in full?

Any reasonable "conservative" would say NO. This is the same thing.
We've spent billions of dollars on educating these kids (mandated by the
supreme court-we can't deny K-12 education to this population) while we
as taxpayers don't get to utilize their potential to contribute to
America in the form of tax dollars, talent, military service and human
potential.

Your "Ilegal=Deport", black and white view of the issue is unbearably
counter productive. It does nothing for America.

Two things: Would you like to meet some young people in this situation?
Let me know and I'll set it up. And, what would you propose happen to
kids in this situation? I'd love to know.

You could be a champion of real change. Of something that would
actually help America and these kids.

Justin Gross

"Carafano, James" wrote:
The key issue here is that legalization only encourages further
unlawful presence , there are more effective means to create legal
opportunities robertd foster lawful migration.


---------------------------------
From: Justin Gross
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:57 PM
To: Staff
Subject: To Dr. James Jay Carafano

I read your article on the DREAM Act. Do you even know anyone,
personally, that would benefit from this act? I do. Many of these young people
have grown up here, speak English, are culturally American, and want
the chance to give back to our nation in the form of tax dollars, talent
and military service. Why would we squander the billions we've invested
in their education already? That doesn't sound like a conservative
principle.
There are limits to who the bill will apply to. Why did you not state
the facts?
I would suggest you go out and meet some young people that the DREAM
Act would apply to. It would give you a much needed perspective.
ions of the DREAM Act.

Yeah, I think in framing the debate we really need to engage the mainstream social activism and democratic groups - not just immigration groups. From an economic standpoint it really is common sense - and I think that is why some republicans are for it.

As long as the political action is confined to a far-right lunatic fringe that escaped from ruby ridge but who can vote vs. a hard working group of reasonable students who can't vote -- guess who will win ?

I think that RahmanIV brought up a good point when he said that we aren't organized. Yeah we had some people that appeared in the media that spoke in our support, but those where people were primarily associated with pro-immigration groups in general. That means that natives saw the same person talking about immigration when both the CIR bill and the Dream Act were brought up. That just probably sent the wrong message, in other words they thought amnesty. We seriously need to get organized and quickly. This probably means an actual, physical HQ. An organization mainly composed of Dream Act beneficiaries would allow people to truly distinguish ourselves and not blend us in with our parents and other illegal immigrants who have less to offer the country.

2009 is so far away

and things are only going to get worst

Wars will erupt all over the middle east

I guess Ill crawl back into my hole

Yes, things will get worse!

stop being so damn pessimistic, why do you even bother to post..

your right, we did get the majority, we scared the anti-dreamies, we just needed a little more push, to get it o 60, we basically need more lobbying next time around.

I believe the ones that voted for Dream are the only ones we're getting to vote yes even if it is brought up again in the floor. If Mr. Durbin does work something out with Hutchinson and Cornyn on a compromise, it might lead to a stricter bill but in exchange, a broader bi-partisan support. You can still count on assl*ckerpac superhero Sessions to spew out the same lies as before tho.

We still wont get all the Republican CIR supporters but I'm pretty sure we'll be getting some of them.

LOL i think we basically needed all the senators there!! im pretty sure some senators would have changed their mind in the end if they saw that their votes mattered

No time for regrets.

We all need to rest for a bit. The end of the year is almost over.

It would be cool to find an important person who'd be willing to join our cause... ane hey, maybe even publish a book or something.

We must not be forgotten.