Let's Talk! Spreading the good news of the Christian Gospel - Page 2

Oh dude, one of my favorite bible verses is

Romans 13:8-10: Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

That's the verse that I read every morning before I do anything.

I am glad to see that a discussion has started and I see we are going around in circles. I want to set myself apart from the people you see on TV that want to make money (though I am not sure if that is the ultimate motive of all them, I won't judge). I am not coming here to make any money whatsoever, first and foremost, nor am I here to force anyone to change their beliefs by force, nor to gain any favor with God through good works. For salvation is a free gift from Yahweh through His undeserved kindness:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8.

I had been drawn to God since I was a child, although the God I worshiped was unknown to me at the time. As I grew up and went through the motions of false religion, God was made unknown to me and He really became unknown even more after I became agnostic and had the belief that each person defined God according to his or her life circumstances and experiences.

However, something strange happened to me in September that got me into the hospital for three days or so. While I was there, I was removed from the usual environment I was in and so finally had the chance to think life through. I was trying to do this on my own without any books, basing it only on my life and beliefs I had absorbed thus far. And so, I came to the point where I sought a Bible. One of the patients in the floor helped me find the only copy available. I went back to my room and I read it.

As I opened the book for answers, I came across a mysterious verse:

"For our lives are a fabrication of lies."

At that point, everything made sense to me and shortly thereafter I proclaimed myself a Christian. There I was in bed, reading the Bible explicitly warning me that everything that I thought I was was a construct of lies. Which can only mean one thing: if my life has been made up of lies so far, then, with such lies existing, the Truth exists. Since then, I have been remade anew and see life through a completely different lens.

I have been studying the Bible daily thus far and I cannot find that mysterious verse I had come across. Until I find it, I will consider it a message from God that helped me wake up and repent from the lifestyle I had been living in.

There is no god.

My only "claim" is that mankind can't possibly have the answer to the meaning of life. I suppose that's kind of a claim but it's one thing to claim one doesn't have an answer and brush aside those who claim they have an answer due to not having any proof than to explicitly saying "I know the answer! Let me share it with you" and then get in circular logic.

Regarding science, where science leaves off, it admits to not having an answer. It doesn't just make up stuff. Mankind has only been around for a very short amount of time so there is so much to discover. Already a lot of the bible has been disputed due to discovery of fossils, that nonsense about Noah's Arc, etc. There was a time that these very same Christians were claiming that the earth was the center of the universe and their only proof was their books and writing and they would not listen to Copernicus and Galileo who had actual reasoning and evidence.

I don't know any serious Christian philosopher in today's day claiming that Noah's arc is 100% literal. When Christian scholars say the bible is literal they mean that phrases like, "Jesus is the door to God," to literally mean that Jesus is some sort of portal to god, but not to mean that Jesus is an actual door.

Actually, many of the philosophers (scientist) of the era that you mention were very much theists. And I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but surely you are not suggesting that science is a worldview right (scientism)? If such is the case, how do you go from science to morality?

Now if you are claiming that you don't know if there is a God or not then great. But it sounds like you are asserting that there is no God (fairy tail comment), which would be you practically asserting that such worldview is incorrect. I would go as far as to ask you an even simpler question, what leads you to believe that the universe has no designer (God). In my case, I'd tell you my reasons for believing in a God are the Kalam cosmological argument, the teleological argument, and the fact that morality seems to be inherently objective, along with other personal reasons. This is how science works. You make observations or collect logical arguments to arrive at a conclusion; only in math can you actually "prove" things.

Again, you are focusing on a fraction of Christians. If that is the case, I agree with you. But if you are talking about Christianity (mere Christianity) then I don't think that sounds like a fairy tail, and, neither do many well respected scientists and scholars today.

Keep in mind that most Christians don't claim to know everything about God. Rather, we hope we are following in what we believe to be his message. Could we be wrong, hell yea. But, again, that is what much of what Christian philosophers deal with. This is why I claim that it is important for Christians to continuously questions their set of beliefs.

To make my point 100% clear, let me say this. Religions are like most social groups, you have crazy people, very bright and thoughtful people, along with everything in between. This is true in science too. Surely, you don't disqualify the methodological value of science because you have some scientists that are quacks, right? Of course not... Also, just because you have some scientists (and there are a lot) who mess up scientific processes, you do not disqualify the validity of science as a tool correct (not the results, but science itself)? I doubt you do. That is, the validity of science as a tool is independent of whether scientists apply science correctly or not. All of these things can be said of Christianity too.

Here are a few videos that explain the cosmological and ontological argument in depth:

Kalam Cosmological Argument





Ontological Argument



Here are some arguments against the existence of God being addressed too

Thanks for sharing the videos which I am sure can be a good starting point for those who do not believe in God.

For those who believe in God and who consider themselves Christian, I highly encourage you to read the Holy Scriptures for guidance and to really get to know Yahweh and his Son, Jesus Christ. I am currently reading the Bible in its entirety for the first time and I have a more in depth understanding about God's plan of salvation for humanity.

Sorry for all the videos... Here are a few more videos that I just love...

Two debates between a theist and atheist scholars (physics and philosophical backgrounds)

More relaxed debate:



Intense debate (Practically a cat fight):



A must watch video for theists:

Sorry, these are mostly play on words and pseudoscience that in reality is just gibberish. It doesn't make sense to most people because it's nonsense, but if you notice, the narrator in the second video turns that against the viewer saying "Most people dismiss it because it's complicated" and then insults the viewer by saying "You should still know it so you don't sound foolish".. It's the same old argument that religion has had for centuries that "it's not that any of this stuff is logical, has any proof or makes any sense, it's just that you're not smart enough to follow it....you're smart right?". It's meant to evoke a reaction so someone who is not very confident in their own reasoning will give in.

The fact remains (and it is a fact) that religion, no matter how hard it tries to twist words around or use selective scientific sounding words and charts is based on opinion and the sources they refer to as the basis of their religion is based on the same book that the religion itself wrote.

Sounds good. After all, just about everything is based on informed opinions, even science. But to say that religious beliefs in general are fairy tails, given the sound rational arguments available, is quite irrational. But, I respect your view. I'm not trying to convert anyone. Rather I was explaining why I believe in God and why it is rational.