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DAP Forums > Other Topics > Other Topics

Let's Talk! Spreading the good news of the Christian Gospel - Page 4

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#31
12-03-2014, 08:07 PM
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I always saw religion as a way to explain things we don't understand, and to see how religions came to be we have to go back to their individual origin.
Every religion tries to explain things, it's the universal similarity. They just differ in how they deliver those ideas.
What makes certain religions better than others? I don't know.

Now onto the analogy of the car, I see what you're trying to describe , but what's the concept of "ideas"? Why is there a need for an intelligent being to manipulate matter? Is it really that wrong to think that matter was always present? We're limited by our ideas , like for something to exist it first has to be created.

For us to truly understand the beggining of everything, we have to let go of the comfort of our way of thinking, what is "always true" and what isn't. Whatever logic we've constructed is just that, what we've constructed. These concepts came much after the beggining of the universe.

Also for this all knowing being that is being portrayed as god to "make humans to his image" is a bit weird to me. Didn't humans evolve from other organisms? Is there a "bacterial Jesus" or a "fish jesus"? Why are we so egotistical? Why do we need this all powerful being to be so invested in us?

Until I know more I won't sign up to say I know something is true. It doesn't make sense to me.
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#32
12-03-2014, 08:24 PM
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I remember the days I spent countless post arguing religion


Then I realize its 100x better arguing in person
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#33
12-04-2014, 03:11 AM
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Yeah, I'm sorry if my view offends anyone. It's a very hot topic. I am happy that you guys find love and peace in a different way than me. As long as we try to better ourselves and the people around us it's all good.
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#34
12-04-2014, 03:30 PM
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The message of Jesus' good news is for those who seek comfort and meaning in their lives. His ministry was focused on those who are not only poor but also the poor in spirit. I hope to keep this thread going in order to outreach to anyone who has been looking for answers about life or who are genuinely interested in hearing the good news. I respect those who have heard the Word and rejected it and may you too have peace.
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The miracle of your mind isn't that you can see the world as it is--it's that you can see the world as it isn't.--Kathryn Schultz
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12-04-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith View Post
I remember the days I spent countless post arguing religion


Then I realize its 100x better arguing in person
Nobody ever wins in these arguments in person or online. When I was in my early 20's, I was living this gothy/industrial night club and they usually had these religions guys yelling out stuff about religion to people who were leaving this joint - many of them high as a kite or drunk. Their response to the religious guys was usually a big "fuck you!" , but not me! I tried to be the cool guy to have a normal conversation with them asking about how someone can be his own father and wouldn't that mean there are many gods so the idea of the trinity came up.

Did I change his mind? No. Did I change my mind? No. Was I late for IHOP where my friends were waiting on me? Yep! I was recently rejected by this born again christian girl though so maybe that was my way of fighting back. All I had to do was convert and I would have had her...but even then I knew I couldn't pretend.
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#36
12-05-2014, 12:35 AM
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This is why Satan confused and deceived the entire world, basically creating a god of confusion out of the true God who is Truth. When you consider polytheism, it is confusing! In contrast, YHWH is not the God of confusion, but of order.

Jesus is a divine being, the image of God. There is only One true God who is the Almighty, and there are no other gods like Him. The scriptures also state that the current god of this age is Satan. Notice that the word "god" denotes a divine spirit being. There is only 1 who is the Almighty .
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#37
12-05-2014, 03:01 AM
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I have a lot of atheists friends, they always got mad when I took their logic and turned it against them saying I couldn't do that. Eventually we just stop talking about it
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#38
12-05-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nesto90 View Post
Some aspects of religion are fundamentally against science, because science is open to criticism and new ideas. God's existence cannot be challenged in religious circles; for the reason that religion all about faith.
Well, the same is true of science. In a lot of places, this doctrine of science can't seem to be challenged either . As a scientist, I personally question science even as a tool at times. And you are right, unfortunately a lot of religious people do not like their believes being challenged, but again, this is true of even scientists. In other words, such behavior is not exclusive to religion. I believe it is important for people to continuously challenge their views.

Now in regards to faith, even science is based on faith; think about the faith that we even have in believing the intelligibility of the universe. Also, when a scientist collects data, he or she has faith their interpretation of the data is correct and objective. Again, keep in mind that we have faith that science is a good representation of the universe based on our short experience of using science as a tool, but that could be wrong too. As we use science more and know more about the universe science might be insufficient to explain things.

Some religious people, like yours truly, go about their faith in the same way. I question my religious believe all the time. I continuously try to figure out what God is like based on the evidence that I have (i.e. the universe, human nature, logic, scripture). I try to learn and adjust my believes as I learn more. And yes, I and many Christians and Muslims I know continuously question the existence of God.

Again, there are many crazy religious people, but the same is true of non religious people. Think of it this way, when a few atheist do some crazy things, you don't go blaming atheism or say that atheist people are bad do you? Of course not, that is crazy. So, it is also not very rational to such a thing with people that are theists.
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12-05-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severity View Post

Now onto the analogy of the car, I see what you're trying to describe , but what's the concept of "ideas"? Why is there a need for an intelligent being to manipulate matter? Is it really that wrong to think that matter was always present? We're limited by our ideas , like for something to exist it first has to be created.

For us to truly understand the beggining of everything, we have to let go of the comfort of our way of thinking, what is "always true" and what isn't. Whatever logic we've constructed is just that, what we've constructed. These concepts came much after the beggining of the universe.

Also for this all knowing being that is being portrayed as god to "make humans to his image" is a bit weird to me. Didn't humans evolve from other organisms? Is there a "bacterial Jesus" or a "fish jesus"? Why are we so egotistical? Why do we need this all powerful being to be so invested in us?

Until I know more I won't sign up to say I know something is true. It doesn't make sense to me.
These are wonderful points that you bring up. First let me talk about logic and reason. Everything, and I mean everything that we study is all dependent on logic and reason... I mean everything. Without reason and logic, we can't even do things like science. Having said this, I can now address your other points.

Why is there a need for an intelligent being to manipulate matter?

There is no need, that just seems to be one of a few reasonable explanation when we try to explain the reason for the existence of the universe. How you might ask? Well, I think the Kalam cosmological argument does a good job at explaining that. You might say that's just logic, and, logic is just some silly thing we created. The thing is that if you say that then you would be discrediting everything else that we have based on logic, including science.

And you could be right, maybe the universe did come to be out of nothing and it is eternal in the past. However, because everything that we know of seems to have a cause and a beginning, the burden of proof would be on the person making the claim that the universe is eternal in the past and that it has no cause.

Now about God making humans in his image. This is a Christian believe and not one that is generally held by all religions. Hence, I will answer it to the best of my ability from a Christian point of view. What makes you think that to say that he made us in his image speaks of a physical form? Maybe that means that he made us in his image in the sense that we would be able to recognize the concept of love and morality.

And, evolution is in no way in conflict with the idea of the universe having a creator. Evolution only tells you how organisms already created eventually evolve. Evolution does not tell you how such organisms came to exist nor their reason for being.

And why do we need this being to be so invested in us...? Well, this is only true of some religions. Suppose the universe was created, then for all we know this creator could be an asshole for all we know. Now, the worldview that I hold (Christianity) stipulates that this God is a personal God. This is the reason that I believe this God is so vested in us. But again, this is not just based on some illusion. There have been many studies on the topic and they, in my opinion, seem rational; here is a video of a talk at UCSB university on the historicity of Jesus .

And you are right, you shouldn't sign up for something that you don't believe to be rational. I think that Christianity is rational (mere Christianity) and true based on rational investigation.
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Year arrived and age at time of arrival: 1989, 8
Education level: Two Master's (Econ and Math); Can't afford a PhD.
DACA: I was too old by 5 days.
Expanded Daca: I should be good now.
Bitter? Optimistic
Last edited by drvenom; 12-05-2014 at 10:01 AM..
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#40
12-05-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoswithoutfaith View Post
I have a lot of atheists friends, they always got mad when I took their logic and turned it against them saying I couldn't do that. Eventually we just stop talking about it
I'm very lucky in that I have very cool atheist friends who I constantly talk with about these topics. We each ask one another questions and try to see what it is that we understand and misunderstand about each others' worldviews. I welcome my views being challenged because it leads me to learn more and to understand my worldview better.
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Year arrived and age at time of arrival: 1989, 8
Education level: Two Master's (Econ and Math); Can't afford a PhD.
DACA: I was too old by 5 days.
Expanded Daca: I should be good now.
Bitter? Optimistic
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