let's debate among ourselves

Why do we need this Dream Act?
Simple. We want to pass this DA so that the young people like us can become a legal resident or even citizen with a brighter and legal future.

Yes. We came here because we had no choice. Our parents brought us here regardless the reason behind it.

I looked over so many videos, remembered what my teacher argued in the past, and reasons people against this DA: do we really have a good point?

Majority of the anti-DA will argue: well, it is the parents' responsibility. It is not the Americans to legalize these people who broke the laws and hoped to get benefits from the Americans.

We always stand on our own point of view seeing how bad it is to us, but how do we respond to these arguments from the anti-DA?

If you happen to look over the youtube (CNN) interview. We sounded like we were losing the debate.

Does anyone understand what I am trying to say? I am an undocumented myself, so I want DA to pass. But when I think about their arrangements, and when I think as a citizen, I found their arguments are more powerful because, we broke the laws.

Tell me what and how would you respond.

We, as children, did not break the laws and for you to think that as an undocumented immigrant that you claim to be, is utterly preposterous! We were children... how can a one year old know he was overstaying his visa or crossing the border illegally? If you need reasons why Congress should pass the DREAM Act, then you don't even deserve to benefit from it.

And from your name it looks like you're doing what that play is about... pretending to be someone you're not.

first of all, i am sorry if you find this offensive
i chose this name because i was reading this book at the time i registered (two days ago)
and i picked that avatar was to refer to the failure to pass the DA last year
why am i asking this question? because i want to make our points even more clear.

i am not a spy. i am 100% an undocumented 17 years old high school senior in NY.
i am trying to be very reasonable here.
you may not like my idea about having a debate / or a small talk if you insist to re-phrase my word.

it's hard to explain what i am trying to say, because i am the kind of person who just thinks a lot about this issue and that issue.

again, no disrespect here
i am trying to be reasonable

This is a public forum and all kind of posts are accepted as long as they have evidence to back it up. Also evidence is something that has been scientifically gathered and is not from a biased source.


That said, to reply your post ( or should i say claim without any evidence ?).

Lets say some a 5 years old kid's parents have done a crime that got them a jail sentence of 10,000,000,000,000,000,........ years of prison.

So what would you with the 10 years old kid?

1) Jail them along with his/her parents ( hey it is not other people's responsibility)

2) let the kid live on the street alone ( Why should any one care, it is the kid's parent fault).

3) Put the kid up for foster care and support the kid, well because he has not done anything wrong and he should not be punished for what his parents did. It is not like the 5 years old kid could stop his parents.


So which one would you pick?

P.S. Forgot to mention this. supporting the kid ( option 3) will promote more parents to do crime, because they know their kid will always be taken care of and will benefit .
P.S.S. I personally am not offended by your post. It is just that your post lacks so much. It does not have any thing to back it up. Not even a biased evident.

We need it because:
-Kicking us out will cost America a lot of $$.
-Legalizing us will bring in a lot of revenue (and we all know the US would rather bring in money than spend it right?)
-Realistically, we belong here and most of us won't leave.
-America has spent tons of $$$ already in our grade school education (right we have granted through the Plyler v. Doe court case), why not allow us to pay it back by working legally?
-Moral issue. Civil rights. Whatever you want to call it.
-America needs the specialized work (no need of HB visas when you have talent in the country already)
-We would be able to work and pay taxes to the US (most of us already do anyway but more people will)
-Because social security is suffering, we would positively contribute to it if we became legal.

and the list goes on and on

There's been studies made that show an increase of income for immigrants as they progress through the legalization process.

Allowing the DREAM Act to pass will give many young adults the ability to go through the legalization process, allowing them to reach their professional dreams, gaining more income therefore increasing US revenue through income taxes.

And since there is a recession going on the US needs to most increased revenue it can get.

if(DreamAct.isPassed() == true)
    Me.SetHappinesLevel(10000000000);
else
    Me.WorkHard++;

For me its a black and white issue. The emotional and civil rights arguments are obvious but obviously ignored by the opposition as they only see one thing, 'Illegal'.

So we're invested in education for so long yet when it comes time to rip the fruits of it it's denied. It's bad business practice from the U.S. so not legalizing DREAMies prevents the US from getting their due return on investment, its illogical to do this in any corporation and the US is just one big corporation. Kicking every one out really does not serve any purpose at all as the US will not only lose money by the work needed but also will lose on their return on investment.

When it comes to DREAMies the opposition only has one argument and its not even an argument, they hide behind one word "Illegal". Taking all the social issues aside and just looking at it from the dollar signs its retarded why anyone would oppose but when you base your whole state of mind on semantics you really have no hope of seeing what is really being missed out on.


So as far as trying to convince the opposition why DREAM is good thats hopeless as they are the lowest denominator hiding behind one word. They will ignore all social justice arguments immediately and their only response to the economic benefits of DREAM is the word 'Illegal'. Our only hope is that Senators/Reps are smarter than that so we must cater to changing their mind.

I of course want the DA to pass but you made a joke of an argument, that would never withstand any scrutiny by anybody opposing the DA.

First of all, the crime that the parents committed doesn't even get passed on to the children. Yes, you are free to leave when you turn 18 and you will not get a 10 year ban. And its a double edge sword; once you turn 18 you are considered an adult so you should bear responsibility for your actions at that time if you do choose to stay. Furthermore, saying that you want to stay here because you have been here for the last 17 out of 18 years of your life is pointless. "Feeling" American doesn't entitle you to any benefits. Really, whats the difference a person who has been here illegally for 10 years and the person who has been here for 2? You should rest your case by mentioning that its all our parents' fault. That has its limits.

Second of all, "3) Put the kid up for foster care and support the kid, well because he has not done anything wrong and he should not be punished for what his parents did. It is not like the 5 years old kid could stop his parents."
WTF??? The point of the DA is that we don't really get any benefits from it. The government will not be supporting us, we won't even be entitled to fed. financial aid. We are not suppose to be seen as people who are trying to be taken care of by the US government, but people who have worked harder and went further than our parents despite all of the obstacles in our way. When I hear the words, "undocumented" and "support" or "welfere", I say "hell NO!". We should never be entitled to those until we become US citizens. If we cannot do it on our own, we should not be entitled to stay here. And I personally believe the case should be the same with LPRs.

We are talking about the Dream Act here, not some "save the children" foundation. Most of us don't just want to stay here. We want to stay here and fulfill our dreams; dreams that can only be fulfilled in the US. Dreams we worked hard for. WE are not asking for a handout; we are offering something in return: US trained professionals across numerous fields of science and humanities. Something that US has already spent a great deal of money on, and now they could just reap the fruits of our education at a discount price.

There is a huge difference between someone who has been in the US for only 2 years versus someone who has been here for 10. For starters assimilation, knowing the language, etc. Past versions of CIR and I'm sure future versions will have some sort of cut off date with the length of time in the US to qualify. Just as DA has the five year cut off date with the age entering factor.

There's a pretty goddamn big difference, when you spend your YOUTH, yes the most developmental part of your life, adjusting to your surroundings. You can't be serious, when you don't see the difference between someone who's been here for couple of years (for study abroad, or other reasons,) and someone who spent the FIRST 18 years growing up.


EDIT: Bah Swim beat me to it.