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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The News Room

Immigration at forefront of Obama-Calderon meeting

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#1
05-18-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
WASHINGTON — With the immigration debate raging in both their countries, President Barack Obama and Mexico's Felipe Calderon will reaffirm their commitment to comprehensive immigration reform during the Mexican leader's state visit here Wednesday.

While immigration has long been a source of tension between the U.S. and Mexico, the controversial immigration law recently enacted in Arizona threatens to add strain to the relationship. Obama has promised to start work on reform, but he's also warned that lawmakers may not have the appetite to take on the sensitive issue this year.

Calderon has vowed to push for immigration reform during his trip to Washington. He's facing pressure from some Mexican lawmakers to consider breaking commercial ties with Arizona, and his government has issued a travel warning for the Arizona, warning that migrants face an adverse political environment there.

Obama has called the Arizona law "misguided" and has asked the Justice Department to review the law.

A senior administration official said the U.S. expects a series of concrete steps on immigration to come out of Wednesday's meetings that build on work done this year to open new border crossings and invest in the modernization of existing crossings. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely ahead of the meetings.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Yt9ewD9FPE4B01
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#2
05-18-2010, 04:42 PM
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Mexico needs to do its part as well; to push for immigration reform in the U.S. is one way of avoiding the real problem, Mexican politics themselves. The immigration issue is the result of years of political corruption that controls and monopolizes the Mexican economy while at the same time denies workers their fair share and treatment due to lack of fair labor laws. If Calderon really wants to assure his people are treated right i the U.S. he must himself as well as other Mexican politicians assure the people are treated right in their country.

I'm glad he's showing face for his people but instead of pushing for political shifts outside hi realm he must concentrate the efforts on the internal politics of Mexico to assure immigration is not an issue in the future. He should push for the creation and implementation of fair labor laws to assure workers are paid fairly by foreign companies. He must also break up all existing monopolies in Mexico (telmex, pemex) to allow local and foreign investors and entrepreneurs to bring in their business, competition and jobs to mexico but only after fair labor laws are implemented. Telmex and Pemex if broken could themselves create an influx of investment if done right. Telecommunications and Energy run the world, but if they are left to have all control (monopoly) they will control the people.

His efforts are noted but they don't have merit when little to nothing is being done on the Mexican end re mediate the problem. The only reason he's doing this is because of money, Mexico needs the money immigrants send, if he really cared about his people he'd try to fix the country so that they don't escape by the masses as they do today.
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Last edited by deftbeta; 05-18-2010 at 04:44 PM..
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#3
05-18-2010, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by deftbeta View Post

I'm glad he's showing face for his people but instead of pushing for political shifts outside hi realm he must concentrate the efforts on the internal politics of Mexico to assure immigration is not an issue in the future. He should push for the creation and implementation of fair labor laws to assure workers are paid fairly by foreign companies. He must also break up all existing monopolies in Mexico (telmex, pemex) to allow local and foreign investors and entrepreneurs to bring in their business, competition and jobs to mexico but only after fair labor laws are implemented. Telmex and Pemex if broken could themselves create an influx of investment if done right. Telecommunications and Energy run the world, but if they are left to have all control (monopoly) they will control the people.
This is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.

First off, Telmex and Pemex couldn’t be any more different from each other. Pemex is one of the very few companies that haven’t been stolen from the Mexican people by Wall Street (though BP, Chevron, Exxon etc. have tried hard). Telmex, on the other hand, (once solely owned by the Mexican government) is now the crown jewel of the richest man on earth’s portfolio, and a rather safe bet on the New York Stock Exchange.

Telmex is the quintessential example of how privatization has consistently fucked Mexico over: a right-wing administration begins to under-subsidize a nationalized company; the administration turns around and claims that they can’t afford to modernize the aging company, even though Mexico is the 13th richest country in the world sitting on an annual GDP of about a trillion dollars; they propose privatization as the only solution to save the company; and voila, they transfer Fortune 500 companies like Telmex from the Mexican people to foreign hedge funds with three weekend homes in the Hamptons. The story is the same for television, banks, highways, mining, transportation, etc.

I don’t know where you get this moronic idea that bringing foreign investors would somehow make it easier to establish fair labor laws. The factual evidence certainly indicates otherwise (ask any Chinese worker how it's working out for them).
Back when these industries were owned by the Mexican government, workers were actually unionized i. e. they were able to earn a decent living that allowed them to attain a reasonable quality of life, and the number of people crossing the border was much much lower. Once they were privatized, goodbye unions, goodbye middle class lifestyle, and hello U.S. —the obvious solution to these workers’ economic dilemma.
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Last edited by angeleno; 05-18-2010 at 09:55 PM..
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#4
05-19-2010, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angeleno View Post
This is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.

First off, Telmex and Pemex couldn’t be any more different from each other. Pemex is one of the very few companies that haven’t been stolen from the Mexican people by Wall Street (though BP, Chevron, Exxon etc. have tried hard). Telmex, on the other hand, (once solely owned by the Mexican government) is now the crown jewel of the richest man on earth’s portfolio, and a rather safe bet on the New York Stock Exchange.

Telmex is the quintessential example of how privatization has consistently fucked Mexico over: a right-wing administration begins to under-subsidize a nationalized company; the administration turns around and claims that they can’t afford to modernize the aging company, even though Mexico is the 13th richest country in the world sitting on an annual GDP of about a trillion dollars; they propose privatization as the only solution to save the company; and voila, they transfer Fortune 500 companies like Telmex from the Mexican people to foreign hedge funds with three weekend homes in the Hamptons. The story is the same for television, banks, highways, mining, transportation, etc.

I don’t know where you get this moronic idea that bringing foreign investors would somehow make it easier to establish fair labor laws. The factual evidence certainly indicates otherwise (ask any Chinese worker how it's working out for them).
Back when these industries were owned by the Mexican government, workers were actually unionized i. e. they were able to earn a decent living that allowed them to attain a reasonable quality of life, and the number of people crossing the border was much much lower. Once they were privatized, goodbye unions, goodbye middle class lifestyle, and hello U.S. —the obvious solution to these workers’ economic dilemma.
A few things:

On Pemex -
1) Pemex's and Mexico's crown jewel, The Cantarell oil field which is the main reason Pemex has been an exporter of crude for years is on a downward spiral and expected to be depleted within ten years. Ten years is not enough time to catch up on its own with the likes of the Exxons, Chevrons, etc. in technology, capabilities and infrastructure.

2)Because Pemex is a government operated monopoly it's business has not been led by technologically capable individuals. It has been led by the government; politics have dictated its economics and thus has never invested in its internal improvement as organization to keep up with other operators. Pemex is years behind in technology and capabilities that will allow it to explore and produce deepwater reservoirs which is where the oil being found now. Easy, shallow water and land reservoirs are being depleted.

3) Deewpater exploration is expensive ($1MM/day operational cost) and its common practice for operators to explore these under partnerships to minimize the associated economic risks involved. As a government monopoly, Pemex assumes too much risk in exploring this alone. Add their lack of experience and/or knowledge in the field, they're set up for economic disaster. They are already the operator with the most debt in the world with little to show for it.

4) The maritime boundary in the Gulf of Mexico is set to expire soon, thus allowing American operators to drill and produce close to or at this boundary. The Mexican government wants to extend its expiration but good luck with that one guys. Its Pemex and its leadership (government officials) fault that Pemex is incapable of pursuing the deepwater prospects other operators, not just American, have invested money to perfect their practices for years thus allowing them to pursue them at will. When this happens, many reservoirs lying on the border are at risk of being "sucked" from under Mexican soil through suction. So even if Pemex doesn't want to become Private to allow deepwater partnerships they're still at risk of losing on very valuable reserves for Mexico.

5) My suggestion was not an full opening of the energy market. This needs to be structured. My suggestion was for Pemex to be be privatized in a manner where it allows them to work with other operators in their deepwater exploration and perhaps some shale plays if those exist in Mexico, which should. Mexico/Pemex alone cannot do it under its current practices. They have not invested in their own self improvement and will probably not in the future; can't teach those old dogs (govt. officials heading pemex) new tricks, especially when these can take a toll on their way of life. Brazil and Norway have done it, semi-privatizing their E&P sector. Norway has done it better than Brazil on a socio economical manner; less poverty. In allowing other operators into Mexican soil such should only be allowed with the conditions that these will invest in infrastructure in Mexico such as refineries and what not. (Mexico/Pemex itself has not invested in refineries as it should for the size of the company and its production outputs. Pemex sends oil to the U.S. to be refined then is sold back to Mexico. Smart?). Mexico still has yet to reach its full potential and reap the full benefits of its energy resources, with its current organization and work practices I don't believe they will fully exploit it and whatever is exploited will only go to a few govt. individuals leaving the crumbs for the masses. Its what happens when you have monopolies like Pemex, operations will not be dictated by science, sound economics or competitive drives. Cantarell gave Pemex a sense of security that is close to fading out soon. With Cantarell out, Mexico becomes and importer and with the main source of income for Mexico out of the picture crisis will really hit and immigration will skyrocket even more.

On Telmex -
1) My suggestion was that it be broken apart. Like Pemex, its a monopoly and monopolies are bad for innovation and like you mentioned bad for the overall welfare of the population.

2)Had its stayed a Govt. company while it secures jobs etc. it does not incubate innovation and continual improvement. Do you like iphones? do you like cheap computers? do you like the option of choosing phone providers based on what they can offer YOU? While security is nice without competition there is no innovations and life becomes stagnant. When things are even and there is no drive things move a very slow pace and gives the public very little if any alternatives or improvements to the status quo.

3) Telmex, while its a private company by the vary nature of being a monopoly inhibits innovation as well and pigeon holds the masses to one choice of service thus my suggestion to break up its monopoly.

3)Yes Telmex has fucked over Mexico, but not because its a private company but because its a monopoly.

Labor Laws -
1) I never said that foreign investment would promote labor laws. What I said was to develop and implement fair labor legislation prior to opening the doors to foreign investment.

2) Also, privatization does not necessarily translate to foreign investment, privatization allows local entrepreneurs to come into the game and perhaps change it. Again, competition = innovation. Not allowing privatization of Pemex or Telemex secures the income for only a select few; open up these markets and let other Mexican entrepreneurs give them a run for their money. There is small phone and oil companies started every day in the states but this is not the case in Mexico because of the monopolizing nature of the beasts.

3)If one is to privatize an industry this must also ban monopolies, otherwise you defeat the purpose of privatization. Furthermore, privatization can prevent and/or regulate the investment of foreign investors to assure the benefits of the people. Mexican leadership does not give a fuck about the people otherwise they'd push for fair labor legislation that promotes a smaller gap in wages for Mexican workers in American companies to that of the American worker.

Immigration -
1) Calderon and Mexican officials as a whole want immigration otherwise they'd strive to change the status quo.

2) With the eminent decline of Cantarell, immigration will take a lead role in Mexican economics as it's now second to oil revenues. So being that Mexico won't change their greedy corrupt ways of Pemex (or Telemex), they come and ask for immigration reform to thus assure at least one source of income remains while at the same time not jeopardizing their own gains. The govt. will milk Pemex to the ground if nothing changes.

You invite unions but unions like monopolies also harm innovation and progress. They assure security but at what cost? Do GM workers really deserve $50/hr for installing headlights? really? That's what unions can do, they can make demands based on power not on need. Isn't need and competitive drive the essence of the DREAM Act? Reward hard work, not entitlement? Unions can become sources of entitlement so no thank you, pay me what I'm worth and would hope others think the same, reward hard work, its the American way right? The DREAM Act is the means to reap the benefits of hard academic work otherwise it has no merit. Do you think your dad or any family member can do the work of any GM worker for 20, 30, 40 dollars an hour? Do you think that if this is so, he should not have a chance at the job because the union prevents the company from firing a union worker over economic demands? That picture does not seem right to me. We, you and I are immigrants and we're the products of competition. If you really believe in unions you might as well believe that no immigrant deserves the work of an American, cos thats the opposition is, a Union protecting their jobs. Let economics dictate what your service is worth, don't mask it with politics.

Finally, I am glad Calderon has shown face but he needs to change the ways Mexico goes about their business. Immigration reform is just another patch in the big problem and Obama should demand he opens true free market competition w/o monopolies in Mexico to revitalize the economy. I have met ex-Pemex workers and partners, work for a semi private/national oil company and follow this issue on a daily basis so I am aware of many of the associated factors in the issue. Pemex will fall as an energy powerhouse within ten years if it does not completely change its organization or goes private. Changing the organization is harder because they are all allies of each other, going private and allowing competition brings in an external factor outside of their jurisdiction and has the potential to bring about positive economic changes if done correctly. They just need to assure the maintain power over reserves in some manner like Brazil has done. Likewise, Telemex's monopoly needs to be broken, otherwise its not a true privatization of the industry. Again, all this after labor legislation.

these are some good opinions on the matter (IMO):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/op...iedman.html?hp
http://www.proceso.com.mx/rv/modHome...xclusiva/79273
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Last edited by deftbeta; 05-19-2010 at 02:42 PM..
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