Let us step back and think about this for a second

I was just reading the comments about McCain being bad or not being bad and thought i should start this thread.

What is the point of this site?

To pass the DREAM Act. OK we can't pass it just by saying we want to pass it, we need the votes and a driving force to pass it.

OK now let us look at our options, do we want a liberal, yep his is a liberal, who has not wavered in his decision about supporting the dream act or some dude who has been a cosponsor in the past but has now gone to say he doesn't support the dream act by itself and needs to have secret meetings to the hispanic community to say he support immigration.

OK mccain may have supported whatever in the past, dont care now, but none of that came to fruit, so it doesn't matter what he may has said or tried to do in the past, he has changed.

Again I ask this question, what is the point of this site? The answer is to pass the DREAM Act.

This is what i see as the problem with this argument. We do not want another failure where everyone is crying 4 yrs down the road and saying why didn't such and such get elected. In politics the president is controlled a lot by his party. He will basically follow his party in his first 4yrs since he also will want to get reelected and doesn't want to lose any supporter. So let say mccain is elected, not good for this country, he may think, hey i want to get reelected why anger some of my much needed few conservative supporter and pass such a small bill, dream act; why waste my political capitol?

Lets look at party here: republicans have conservative who hate immigration reform and yes the do have influence, they changed mccain.
democrats have liberals, i wont explain further.

What side do you want your president on if you want to pass the dream act?

Why does this matter we can't vote. Oh but it does matter. Many of us have friends who can vote. We can vote by convincing one of our friends wont vote to vote. When you tell your friend well mccain my not be bad, what message are you sending. We need to be in full support of obama b/c he is supporting us. So we may not be able to call our senators or whatever this year, but we can convince a friend to become our vote and yes every vote counts or i hope it does...

This is getting long, but two more points.

Who is the one guy who has stood by us since this bill was made? Dick Durbin. Who does he support? Fill in the blank. The things mccain may have done are nothing compared to what durbin has done for us. He is close friends to obama and why do you think obama is saying, "I will pass the dream act"? Dick Durbin. He is still trying to help us get the best chance we need.

I ask this question Dick Durbin or Mccain? If you need to think about this, you need to seriously think if you are really commited to passing the dream act.


Okay this is my last point.

Dream was introduced in 2005 and versions have existed since when 2001 or so? Look at that time. The last 10 yrs has had either a republican president or a republican controlled congress with a democratic president. What has this shown you? It is not very good to have republicans in control if you want to pass a bill, like dream, whose main argument is "its the right thing to do." Last time i checked you should want the other side.

why i brought that up is the lack of hope around here. It is annoying. "Well i dont know if..." or if any good news come up: "well...dont get your hopes up". We suffer so much in our lives,why not have some hope in the causes you want to fight for live the dream act. Dont keep second guessing them saying, oh well it didnt work the last time. It failed last yr, ok get over it.

Ok im done. I hope this didn't offend anyone, but i just want to people to be focused on what our task is. When the dream act comes up, i want it to pass and that means I want the best case scenario, which actually has a good shot of happening this yr.

"Who is the one guy who has stood by us since this bill was made? Dick Durbin. Who does he support? Fill in the blank. The things mccain may have done are nothing compared to what durbin has done for us. He is close friends to obama and why do you think obama is saying, "I will pass the dream act"? Dick Durbin. He is still trying to help us get the best chance we need."

I ask this question Dick Durbin or Mccain? If you need to think about this, you need to seriously think if you are really commited to passing the dream act.





This is what I've been saying, Obama is our best chance for Dream to pass because Dick Durbin is one of his buddies. They are both the Senators of Illinois, so they both work together solving the same issues. One of Durbin top issues is immigration and he wants the Dream Act to pass. Obama knows this that's why he said "We need to Pass the Dream Act first". He knows CIR will be difficult to pass.

I always give vivid details to my friends about Obama and let them know the best Candidate between Obama vs. McCain is OBAMA! Are we all better of today then we were 8 years ago? The Answer is No! Gas Prices Rising, Economy is in a Recession, Food Prices are getting high, the war is going nowhere, and the sad part is that most conservatives blame all these issues on immigration...

So, I advice all of you to go out there and get your friends and family members to vote for Obama and not another Bush(McCain).

Thanks.

SHORT VERSION: I mostly agree that Obama is better.

LONG VERSION: Being partisan in this debate is really ineffective seeing as you do need both sides to pass it. People should not condemn Republicans simply because they are Republicans based on these two simple facts:

Ronald Reagan - Republican - nearly unconditional amnesty for undocumented immigrants
Bill Clinton - Democrat - Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act - main reason why our lives are infinitely harder now

Secondly look at actual DREAM voting:

Republican Senators who voted YES:

Bennett (R-UT)
Brownback (R-KS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
Snowe (R-ME)

With COLEMAN and COLLINS running close reelection campaigns against Democrats who are untested with regards to DREAM. (CRAIG's and HAGEL's seats are up for grabs)

While all these Democrats voted against us DESPITE strong party backing and urging from Durbin:

Baucus (D-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Landrieu (D-LA)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Pryor (D-AR)
Tester (D-MT)

BAUSCUS, PRYOR, and LANDRIEU up for reelection and likely to win or lose to an anti-immigration GOP nominee.


Note one important thing - Claire McCaskill who is VERY close to Obama voted against us and while I heard all the "first term Senator in a red state" excuses she DID NOT DO THE RIGHT THING.

All in all western and southern Democrats are highly unreliable while a bunch of Republicans from all over the country and many STRONGLY anti-immigrants regions (LOTT!!!) went against party politics and did the right thing.

THE BOTTOM LINE: Support Democrats because their support is a toss-up with a slight leaning to our side due to the party line motivation BUT don't write off any Republican simply because he's Republican.

As far as I know McCain willingly chose to pursue a decent and fair CIR on his own for many years while we're just trusting Obama because he's friends with Dick Durbin. Putting this kind of trust in a candidate who is desperate for Hispanic votes isn't all that safe either.

I in no way wrote off any republicans, I only wrote off mccain based on his action now. My post didn't take into account any senators.

This is argument i didn't want to have, but people are still stuck in the past. Someone who changed so quickly and hasn't even moved back to his old positions after he has won his nomination is someone i should trust more than obama?

You do know Dick Durbin is the national co-chair of the obama campaign. I didnt based my argument just b/c he is friends, but he obviously has real influence in the obama campaign. Again why is obama saying he wants the dream act passed? Tell me you do not think you think durbin didn't play a part in that?

It is mind boggling that you trust mccain more than durbin after what he has done for us.

Mccain has gone on record and said he doesn't want to pass the dream act alone. Again the point of this site is to pass the dream act, you honestly think CIR is coming anytime soon?

Also if co-chair isn't enough read this to see just how close durbin is with obama's campaign. http://www.dickdurbin.com/news?id=0084

Maybe you're going to think I'm one of those people who "takes it really personally" but that was totally uncalled for. Race has nothing to do with "political disasters".

Not to be a bitch (even though I bet a lot of people think I am) but if someone were to say "typical :insert minority race/ethnicity here: conservative/liberal disaster" there would be an uproar. Let's be (can't believe I'm saying this) "politically correct" and not include race in this discussion. There's no place for it and it honestly sounds ignorant.

Thank you Hopeful.

As for Obama - Durbin isn't running for president, Obama is. Claire McCaskill is as close to Obama as is Durbin. Her name is being thrown around as a possilbe VP and trust me if Obama doesn't have any issues keeping someone like her around he doesn't have any issues forgetting about DREAM.

They're both politicians and we can't blindly support anyone. This isn't really in response to the original post, just a general attitude on the forum here where I sometimes see Republicans likened to the scourge of mankind.

Well if you say that McCain flip flops on a lot of issues, you have to put in mind when he said it too. McCain was more of a liberal before he gained the nomination for the republican party. But now that he has obtained it, he must feel pressure from the republicans, and is forced to agree with conservative ideas. IMO both cadidates would benefit us but Obama would be the better one.

J6, that is a good point. After rereading my post I really shouldn't have attacked you like that. So, sorry about that.

I still feel strongly that we need every thing in our favor in congress and prez., so i can stop reading about the hardships many of us go through here. I will do everything I can to try to make that reality.

^No, it's no problem at all, I tend to get a little off topic.

Trying to figure out what's what in this is very important and it's just frustrating that so many of us don't even bother trying. We obviously have a wide range of opinions but I'm on this forum a lot and I see off-hand comments without any actual evidence all the time. We just need to be smarter about everything.

I also think Obama is better for us (even though if I could vote I would be leaning towards McCain) but McCaskill worries me and I haven't seen Durbin being involved in his campaign in some time. Just a cause for concern.

I think the VP choices for both should tell us a lot about them. If you see that Obama picks McCaskill (low chances but she IS a woman so who knows) or McCain picks Pawlenty (also diminishing odds) either of those choices will be a very bad sign for us.

By the way:

New TIMES/BLOOMBERG National Poll -

National
Obama 49, McCain 37
Obama 48, McCain 33, Nader 4, Barr 3

This is a second poll (other being Newsweek) that reports such a massive lead for Obama. Of course the real question is how does that break up in terms of states and how much will his shrinking lead (it will shrink) ultimate affect those battleground states.