D.C. Passes Bill To Restrict Secure Communities Immigration Enforcement Program

Looks like California wasn't the only one thinking about doing this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...=latino-voices

If we had a working immigration system, I would have no problem with a secure community program.

We need to get rid of all the bad immigrants that give us a bad name. They don't deserve any kind of sympathy because:

1. They are not supposed to be here (legally)
2. They were aware of committing a unlawful act by crossing the border, unlike us.
3. They are behaving badly, such as creating violence or burdening society.

If we all had a residents card, I wouldn't mind having with me at all times. What we need is a system that is actually inforced.

After immigration reform happens, there needs to be a real crack down of employers that hire undocumented workers because if that is not fixed, people will continue to come for oportunities.

Give the undocumented population a chance that is already here and literally seal the border after it against illegal immigration. Simple as that and you get a bill passed!

We'll get ours, so damned be everyone else?

I must disagree with you on several points. Illegals were already given amnesty back in the 80s under the Reagan administration in return for tougher restrictions against new illegals. Those who were given amnesty could have turned their backs on those of us who came after them. The majority didn't. Should we spit in their faces by not helping those who come after us?

More importantly though I disagree that our parents, or indeed anyone, broke a law by migrating here. Our parents broke legislation to be sure, but not law. When law is broken there is a victim who has suffered damages to themselves or their property. Legislation on the otherhand all too often attempts to give punishment to victimless actions. No one was or is hurt by our migration.

Should we tolerate immigrants who break the law? Who kill or steal? No. But neither should we tolerate citizens who do so. The issue is exclusive of one's migration status though.

Illegal immigration shall not stop as long as Congress attempts to set the price of migration above the market price. The very idea that one need documents to travel is an invention only a few decades old. It was not until WW1 that we began to see the current system in place.

The immigration system needs not only reform, but shouldn't exist at all. Not in the sense that it's conceived as today at least. We shouldn't have to be educated at a certain level, serve in the military, or even know English.

If compromise must be made in policy, okay. Baby steps are better than no steps. But it is another thing to compromise the end goal. Granted, I may be wrong, but I assume that the goal is not only to gain legal status for ourselves, but to allow every man or woman who wants to come to do so.

WHAT?! Are you freaking serious? So now no one needs documents to travel to other countries?!

Listen hippie and open borders advocate! This country and any other country on the face of the planet should and must have the right to control its borders, otherwise it is not a country.

I don't think everyone that wants to come to America should just show up. That was the case before WW1 but things have changed. Back in the day there was less crowding. Now school systems are burdened by heavy immigration. Students don't get the necessary teacher on student attention because class sizes are too big.

The reason why people kept coming here after the 80s amnesty was because the system continued to encourage immigration and cheap labor.

Once I have my residents card in my hand, I will only know one country: the United States of America.

I was brought here by my father and this country doesn't owe me a penny. But if I am lucky and fortunate enough to one day become a citizen, I will do my best to to make this country work like it should.

The truth is us undocumented workers are exploited and paid less, which in turn depresses wages everywhere else. It's the truth and I know it, and so should you.

And no! Not everyone that wants to come here should be able to come. The Dreamers are a special case that shouldn't be mixed in with the 20-50 year old immigrants that come here and don't even learn English. I'm sorry but if I was in Mexico and we all of a sudden had an influx of, let's say, French people, we would all expect them to respect their new homeland and learn the language.

If you are over 20 and don't know English yet, you are lazy. I learned English because I knew it was the language of this land.

So, go and sing "cumbayah" with your extreme hippie friends. If you don't like the fact that this country has laws, go somewhere else where being an anarchist is legal.

I am proud to say that I love this country, even if it isn't perfect. You obviously don't. How sad! You shouldn't even take advantage of what happens with Obama's order, after all you want no laws on the books regarding immigration. And I thought the Tea Party people were cray cray!

Damn so much name calling and hatred brah.

Yet travel documents have only existed in the past few decades, and only seriously took hold after WW2. Was England not a country till then? I'd love you to tell Iran that although their national history goes back several thousand years they weren't a country till they began to issue passports for their citizens and demand visas of foreigners.

The issue here is the state school system and how it's funded. Not immigration. Nor is crowding really an issue. There is still plenty of land available in the United States. We're only a bit smaller than the PRC in land size, (or larger - depends on how you include disputed regions) yet have a much smaller population.

The brilliant part though is that prices will discourage over crowding. Once a city's cost of living becomes too great people will move to a different city, or even go rural. Or in many cases people will not move to the USA at all as they elect to move elsewhere. All of this already occurs.

Not entirely wrong. More importantly though the USA offers more opportunities for those who come.

My loyalty is to California, but to each his own.

No complaints here. I don't feel entitled to anyone else's money.

Cringing.. Cringing. Cringed.

Migrant workers depress wages since they increase the labor supply, you are correct. This however is not inherently bad. The nominal wages may lower, but real wages increase for everyone as the cost of production lowers and we see goods and services cost less. The same amount of money purchases more. Everyone is better off, migrant or not.

And it seems that you're implying a minimum wage is good. It doesn't. Now I may be incorrect, but please don't make statements on labor economics unless you've had training in the field.

Why are we special?

You needn't force anyone to learn a language though. If it is to their benefit they will learn it. If it isn't, then they won't. McDonalds doesn't give a damn if you know English or not. If it's worthwhile for them to have employees who speak a given language they'll hire one. A dollar is a dollar regardless what language(s) it's owner know. Similarly migrants already have an incentive to learn the dominant language of the region.

Nope. You've simply weighed the costs of learning a language and decided it's more than the benefits.

I sir am no hippie. I know few at least who wear a suit every day. I certainly do not sing cumbayah with anyone. I like Nine Inch Nails myself.

And what's this about not wanting laws? I like laws. I'm not advocating people to kill one another. What I'm advocating against is stupid legislation, which there happens to be a lot of.

I do love California. I merely point out its flaws. Apparently you find flaws in your country as well, hence your modifier that it isn't perfect. If you can love your country with flaws, why can't I? What's the logic you're using there? Can one only point out certain flaws?

If I, for example, point out the idiocy of traffic laws, do I still love my country? Is that okay? Or is that unpatriotic? What can I critic and remain patriotic? Please I'm interested to learn.

And, if you'd humor me more, please outline what your complete views on immigration are HERE.

Ever since then, the information area has changed everything. We can no longer admit unauthorized individuals inside a particular country. For example, the State of Israel must continuously patrol its borders and airports to make sure no one is a threat to the welfare and safety of the nation. As of today, most countries on the face of the earth have borders and are recognized on a map, if you care to buy one or go online and look at one. That map shows you where one country starts and ends. Simple as that.

It is quite sad to see someone, who I presume to be in their late 20s, late 30s, not be concern for the enviorenment. The more people this country has, the more demand there will be for land, food, and energy. All this requires oil at our current level and way of feeding our energy and food needs. We shouldn't encourage more building of cities or suburbs. We should encourage everyone to be limited in their reproductions.

The brilliant part of this is that it is ridiculously false and ignorant of the true problems of overcrowding. Look at inner city fighting. Inner city fighting and violence arises from a population that has low education and less opportunities than the rest of its area. Overcrowding is bad for the development of healthy, sustainable societies. The idea that we can continue to multiply and expect the "market" to settle it all out is insanely irresponsible.

The idea is not to encourage more immigration of low skilled workers, which will give you cheaper services and products, but will damage future generations because of the poor education these kids receive from their parents and low property tax neighborhoods where low skilled workers live, which in turn under fund the school system that supports these kids.

Since when is California not part of the USA? Whatever is decided in the federal government directly affects people in California. If the USA is invaded, will California save you? You truly are a radical. And you have a constitutional guarantee to be, just like people that continue to believe that the world is flat. You are every right to be wrong...


Because we are a special case that has fallen through the cracks of this countries broken immigration system. I don't consider myself the same as a 22 year old immigrant that crosses the border to find work here. I grew up here, thinking I could be part of this society and enjoy all rights and liberties. That 22 year old immigrant only wants to work and provide for his family back home. He doesn't care or has the time to care about this country or its future or its culture.

I work at McDonald's and it is sad that corporations will do ANYTHING to make money, even undermine this country's heritage. I never said I would force them to learn English. I am just saying that if they want to be legalized and be part of the nation legally, then learn the dominant language...period!


It's more than benefits and figures. It's about actually feeling part of this country. You obviously are too detached from emotion because your answers are purely "logical." You forget that we are people and as people, tend to fall in love with things. I fallen in love with America. If that makes me and ethnocentrism, than so be it.

It wasn't meant to be literal. Learn to joke my friend

If you liked laws, than you would not be against laws that require people to have some type of document before entering another country.

I don't see why you continue to say you love California when in fact your constitution protections stem from the US Constitution, not California alone.

I never said no one was patriotic or not. I can just say that there are more patriotic people than others. And you aren't very patriotic. You forget that you are in this country and that this country ultimately will decide OUR fate as undocumented DREAMers.

We've had maps and borders for quite some time. You'd be amazed how accurate surveying was even before the Renaissance. The information age has changed much, but it hasn't really revolutionized borders. We haven't suddenly drawn lines on the ground. Now is there any specific reason that the modern age requires these documents or are you just going for vague 'change'?

You're correct. As the number of people increase a demand of goods will increase as well. However production levels are far from stable, and it is actually increasing all the time as we learn new methods of producing more from less resources.

Less, less, less shouldn't be what we tell people. That's what the bureaucrat without innovation says. People will consume what they can afford, and ,coincidentally, it seems to be that people can become more and more as time passes.

Well actually most crime in inner cities are due to the drug war or other illegal activity caused by government interventions that create black market.

And you understand by market I mean people, both of us included, exchanging information and acting voluntarily to meet our goals with said information?

Okay, so you're argument here seems to be poor people are bad because their children will be under-educated.

(1) Again, this is a problem with the way schools are funded and run. I have at no point defended the current system. Why do you assume I think property taxes are the way to fund schools?

(2) What's the alternative? Allow these migrants never to come and instead have their children taught in their native schools? I'll give you a hint, one of the reasons that people migrate is to get better opportunities for their children. Our school system might be awful, but it's apparently the better choice for many people. Why deny them that better choice?

When did I say California is not part of the USA? It is. France is part of the European Union too. Most countries are part of the UN. The USA is, as we imply when referring to it as the federal government, a federation of sovereign states. I'm a Californian. Just like someone who lives in France is French.

Oh I see. You 'grew' up here. No you're right, that really makes you unique. It isn't like many illegals who came over when 22 and are now in their 50s haven't grown up in the between time. It's not like they haven't become part of the culture here. No, that's silly. Only people younger than 22 can integrate with a new culture.

Sounds like you're suggesting we force them.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I think English is useful to learn for many. I just don't think it's always optimal for everyone, and I won't pretend it is. There are elderly people who live exclusively in ethnic enclaves and never need English. Why force them to learn it if it's unneeded?

I never said one's love can't be used to weigh the benefits of doing something. I do it all the time. I don't gain any money from posting, yet I do. Why? I love this country, and I want to allow others to enjoy it too if they want.

You're the one who seems to think calculation doesn't include emotions and other fancies.

D: Bu-but I was joking!

;_; I wish the DREAM Act included a provision to allow Clown College to meet the requirements.

Law =/= Legislation

It seems to be your argument that to like law you need to like all legislation. Dude, that's kinda creepy. I've yet to find anyone who thinks you need to like every legislation, and I've met everything from Communists to Fascists.

Technically I also benefit from the UN Charter on Human Rights. Do I need to love the UN too? Do you send the Secretary-General a valentines card? <3 Aww. You sound so cute.

And there is also the issue of whether the Constitution actually protects right (it doesn't!), but I'll just leave it at that.

You should vote for Romney by friend, you'd love his policies. He's just as elastic as you in words!

Why I clearly recall you saying I didn't love this country at all. Not less than you, but at all. See here:

Note you didn't say, "You obviously don't as much". You just said "don't".

I love California. I don't think criticing it's policies exclude me from loving it. Being a yes-man who accepts everything on the otherhand.. Well if you aren't willing to tell someone you love that they're doing something wrong, do you really care about them?

P.S. And if it wasn't clear from my first post - I'm glad about D.C.'s actions. I am however sad to see DREAMers who believe in a restrictive migration policy.

What makes you so special that you should not be deported?

I can sense a future illegal tea bagger...