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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The News Room

Graham says we hurt future immigration discussions. - Page 5

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#41
12-19-2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppl_man View Post
Randy, I am glad that you are not an ignorant. I came from Hong Kong. When I was a boy, we had a supreme court case on illegal immigrants. At the time I was only 6, 7. I don;t like illegal immigrants either. It's my city.

Nobody likes undocumented and criminals. We want to enforce laws and to ensure the safety of our neighborhoods. But the Capitol Hills are too busy playing with their games. The Democratic spent two years playing their bipartisan game, but Obama failed at doing it because the Republican are not happy with the agenda he went with: big government, small market.

What we need is to fix the system. Border security after border security. How many and how high should the fence be? Okay. If we just block the whole border, block all the smugger, we would still have thousands of undocumented here because they overstayed their visas.

The undocumented aliens are already part of this country, part of this economy. When we get paid, we go out and consume goods. There are districts with low enrollments and schools are closing down. Some districts, however, are overpopulated because of immigrants, for example, New York City. We are hiring more teachers and opening more schools. Immigrants are always a vital for certain part of this country.

Undocumented aliens are part of this economy. We have been paying their educations. They are using our services, although many of them do pay taxes every year (beside sale tax, of course). There is no way to remove every single undocumented aliens.

However, we can legalize most of them, but to put some conditions. The current dream act prevents mass chain immigration and other long-term immigration restrictions.

Once we can fix this broken system, we can focus on other top domestic threats.

Do you agree with me? We can't fix every thing. But we have to deal with it, soon or later.
Yes, it can be fixed, but, I differ in how it should be done. Mass deportation is not acceptable, but, self deportation is. On another thread here, the folks are talking about leaving because it's too hard. SB1070 makes it hard in Arizona, E-Verify makes it hard around the country.
Those raised here, brought here with no choice, who know nothing else, deserve a shot, others should go back and try the right way.

As for the politicians, well, they're mostly all jerks and asses. They care about elections and their political future. They'll say ANYTHING to get re-elected.
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#42
12-19-2010, 01:44 AM
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Randy, I hope you do know that it's not the people or their elected officials who aren't ready to accept the conditions of our legal possibilities, it's the concern over their political career prospects of some of those NAY voters that came into play should they voted YAY, and thereafter taken the priority over their moral values. Some of those 41 senators WERE supporters of the Dream Act. We had the votes but these people were picked off one by one by their party leaders for reasons mentioned above.
Last edited by Gocchin Sama; 12-19-2010 at 01:47 AM..
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#43
12-19-2010, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy L View Post
Your core family, as in your parents, started this mess. I know you love them, we all love our parents, but, rewarding them with legal status is offensive to most Americans. If my dad breaks the law should I get to reap benefits from it and then be able to get him out of trouble?

I said it was harsh, what I suggested, but,that's how people against illegal immigration think. I know because I'm against illegal immigration and I live 10 miles from Mexico. I see and hear it every day.

And I didn't mean fix the broken immigration system, I mean help the kids who were brought here as little ones ONLY.

I get what you are saying and in part I do agree with you our parents broke the law and if we become citizens then they also become citizens and I know that that is what most people where against and calling it amnesty. The thing is that it would have taken more than 20 years for most Dreamers to sponsor their parents, I don't know but I sure hope that immigration reform is dealt within the next few years and not wait for two more decades. The whole saying of No Amnesty, Deport them All seems to be what a lot of people want even when we all know that is not going to happen. I know you don't know how we feel or anyone who voted against it, I can tell you that the feeling I have is not pleasant I always ask myself how it would feel to be free because as far as I can tell my life is just like a prison the only difference is that I can't see the bars, the years go by and I don't get anything done because most of the time I feel worthless and useless. All I want is to be given the opportunity to do something with my life, you should know how that feels since you manage to get your life in order after doing all the wrong things. For most of us we haven't done any of the things you have and yet we have no freedom and you do. I don't know what to do I keep waiting on the Dream Act to pass but it never does. It should have passed. Congress would have had 10 years to come up with a solution to immigration while we had a chance at life now we are all hurt and nothing changed. How long will we have to pay for our parents sins, I hate to think that since I know my mom didn't do it with bad intentions but she had a chance at life and now my life is being wasted because of her good intentions. I'm always reminded of this saying "The road to hell was paved with good intentions" most of the times it hurts just too be alive with no purpose in life while everyone else around you is going somewhere living their life. I hope that congress takes on immigration and gives us a chance to know what if feels to be alive.
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#44
12-19-2010, 02:44 AM
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I'm sorry that people are in this situation through no fault of your own. I honestly don't know what to tell you.
I do know that a solution exists, given the right choice of timing, words and people. I have no fool proof solutions or conclusive answers, but, the apathy and resignation is not going to help and neither is the militant expresion on other threads here.
I overcame my past by example and it took about half of my life, and I did it to myself. I know something will work for you guys.
I read a sttory today where a guy from Japan got legal status from a personal bill, I read another story of a guy who came as a child, went back to Mexico on his own and applied for residency or a work visa and got it. You must strive to better yourselves and make yourself seem worthy. America pictures illegals as Mexicns who sneak across the border in the dead of night with a backpack of dope, change that perception of those who came as children to something better. Lead by example, not by words. And I know some have but, apparently, not enough to appease the masses.
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#45
12-19-2010, 02:46 AM
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Do you know that, even though there are laws against hiring people here illegally, I don't think there are any against starting a business here while here illegally.
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#46
12-19-2010, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream becomes Reality View Post
I'm glad you were able to overcome the obstacles you faced and have moved on to better things, I sincerely congratulate you and wish you all the best.

I'll give you a breakdown of the Dreamers; not all of us were brought here illegally or have parents that are illegal, how do I know? I'm one of them. Both parents are US Citizens but because of several immigration clauses and amendments, slow moving and long waiting lines, I continuously aged out of two different categories and my petition had to be shelved.

The Dream Act would have helped people in such positions out too, since the American immigration system failed them and let them fall through the cracks right from childhood into adulthood. We got in line and waited patiently for years and guess what? we ended up with NOTHING at the end. Even though we did our best to follow the right channels, it still didn't work in our favor. Leaving here would mean living all our LEGAL family behind to start a life alone elsewhere.

We all have unique situations and circumstances, it's not just black and white, there are some gray areas as well.
If your parents are US citizens, you should be one, too. I would sue or have someone sue on my behalf.
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#47
12-19-2010, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dream becomes Reality View Post
According to the US immigration law regardless of whether or not a petition was started on your behalf when you were a minor, if you turn 21 (even if you're 21 yrs and 0 days old) BEFORE your parent becomes a citizen, unless protected by certain clauses, they are no longer your immediate relative. That's what any good immigration lawyer will tell you. They can't help you anymore, that's it for your immigration petition. Also, if you leave the US you will be barred for 10 years so you can't come visit your family either.
Then petition a Congress person sympathetic to your situation. I've read stories of bills being passed for individuals, you gotta have some good creds going for you though. College, job something.
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#48
12-19-2010, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dream becomes Reality View Post
I have a Bachelor's degree but the thing with a Congress man/woman helping you out is that there has to be a basis they can go on for example, it's one thing if you qualify for residency but it's taking a long time then you can ask for a lawmaker's help to perhaps speed things up by shedding some light on your case. However, if you've been shut out completely where they throw the book at you and tell you (without actually saying it) it's basically your fault that you turned 21 before your parent became a citizen, there's nothing a lawmaker can do for you.

What they could've done was pass the Dream Act but I guess our stories didn't mean much to them and they had their minds made up already.
Both sides had their minds made up long ago, to treat those here illegally through no fault of their own, as pawns in an election game.

I've watched it for about 20 years. Emotion, fear and hope drive elections, not results.
Maybe that's an avenue to pursue, small pieces of legilature to influence politicians on specific circumstances, such as yours, that can be considered. I'm no expert in this, just ideas popping in my head.
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#49
12-19-2010, 03:35 AM
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Here's the article about the Japanese guy and the individual bill for him:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a161850S17.DTL
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#50
12-19-2010, 12:36 PM
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Hi Randy. I'm a citizen too, I first became aware of the DREAM Act because of friends and extended family who are in this situation.

I found out, over time, that there is a far greater range of people effected by this than I originally pictured. I have also discovered that there are basically no opportunities available for people to "fix" their immigration situation (the extremely rare 'personal bill' not withstanding ). One of the reasons I am so passionate on this topic is that I have witnessed the out-right lies that the opponents put forth regarding these young people. I am middle-aged, and have always been political - and I was still shocked to see how blatant the lies are.

Also, as a practical matter, it just doesn't make sense to me to have a generation of young people with no ability to participate in the society they live in - that is the essence of social instability. It is also extremely wasteful from an economic standpoint.

Congratulations on your recovery and your dedication in improving your life. As you are well aware, it is extremely difficult to overcome barriers to an education and employment. The problem, in my view, with our current system - is that we are making it not just difficult, but impossible, for these people to overcome barriers. I would like to give you my views on some of your suggestions, for discussion.

1) Sponsorship of parents/relatives: To me, this one is kind of a red herring. The bill made for such a long time line until someone could sponsor a parent that the parent would have to be in their sixties by the time sponsorship could realistically be approved if they entered without inspection. So all of the jumping up and down about it- on both sides - seems kind of pointless, to me. It would actually probably save money to the U.S. in the long run ( because the parent would have to have left the country for ten years, and the sponsoring individual has to agree to support them ) . But realistically, I doubt this would even come up for most families, - so yes, a red-herring generally.

2) Age requirements: This one is interesting - I was also surprised to find out that many people don't even know that they are "illegal" until they become adults. I think as kids ( or even teens ), you just assume that things are okay until you find out they aren't. You also tend to do what your parents tell you on major life decisions - for you or me that might have meant moving across town - for these guys it meant coming to or staying in the U.S. when their paperwork said they should live somewhere else.

Similarly, with the age cap as they get older -- like someone said, a common problem (again, one I didn't know about either) is that many of these people are in this situation because they aged out of a legitimate petition put in by their family. To relate it to your situation - if you got out of prison on parole at 22, were told you had to complete 10 years of sobriety to remain on parole or you would go back to prison- BUT - you had to complete the 10 years by the age of 25-- See, couldn't be done. That is the type of situation many of these folks are in.

3. Increased education and military -- well the problem with this, to me, is that if folks can't work, have no benefits available to them and no funding - it will take them much longer to go to college-not shorter. So how could any of them actually complete college and two years of military by the age of 25 ? That doesn't even seem possible, unless they had a lot of money in the bank. I get uncomfortable with the idea of a college degree and military service both being required - I think you are getting close to the idea of indentured servitude at that point.
I do think a community service requirement would have been a good idea though. Whether through the military or volunteer work.

4) Immigration in general - it really disturbs me that immigrants are so demonized right now. The historical precedents for demonizing a particular immigrant group are so strikingly similar, whether it is Italians, or the Irish, or currently Mexicans. The arguments are always the same, the characterizations, etc... it frustrates me that people don't see that.
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