AZ wants to end birthright citizenship - Page 4

I agree defbeta, these welfare and unemployment services were started to throw a kick in the butt just enough to get you started, not to base your everyday life on it. these kids on a near by ghetto live on welfare and yet you see them with $400 rims and a sidekick 3 with a nice Ipod on the side.

these goes for the white trash, the hispanics, the arabs, the blacks and the yellow and also my own ethnic background. this bitch that I know was crying all night to get her papers; when she finally got them she went to the welfare office and said she was disabled b/c she smoked allot, now they pay for her cigarettes.

As far as the birthright citizenship thing, I don't want to take it out b/c I'm all for the kids who didn't have a say in what country they would be born in; as for the parents who o.d with all those births... well that's a different story.

I'm trying to not smoke weed while all my friends pressure me too, that's because I want to stay out of trouble and not take this place for granted... to all those who did get papers and don't know how it is to sleep at night knowing you'll be sent back tomorrow, I say; today is a misery tomorrow is a mystery.

[quote=Banished;160411]You are asking another nation to take care of your offspring while you as a parent have no cultural/legal connection with the country (btw my mother is a citizen and my sister is a permanent resident). My argument isn't about undocumented immigrants legalizing through their children, it is about people purposely coming over to give birth here so their children can benefit from programs that these people have no right to make use of since they aren't legal residents of this nation. We have no right to be here, all of a sudden we pay taxes and we expect to receive full social benefits, and then we whine if we get no support? Now that's messed up, Americans are right to complain about this.
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I don't know your background, I don't know if your mother gained citizenship or your sister residency after having lived here illegally or not. What I know it's that it's hypocritical for us to call out those who take advantage of the system when in reality we did as well. While not always the case, I'd say the majority of aliens over here came because of economic opportunity. Perhaps someone's parents in this forum had more kids than they could support in their native country, or got involved in a risky mortgage or business decision, the fact remains that they moved here to better their situation. I can see US native citizens bitching about the issue, I just don't see us having a right to.

The truth of the matter is these kids will have the opportunities we may never have, thanks to their parents. To me it's the same situation our parents faced once, and just because it's happening now I am not going to turn a blind eye to the similarities. FWIW dozens of "anchor babies" I've known lived most their lives in Mexico, were educated there free of charge by the Mexican government up to high school level and moved to the states to finish their studies. Mexico will not see a dime in taxes or return on their investment (be it intellectual or economical) once these ''babies'' move their lives over here..

What can I say to that? I can't argue with feelings. Hypocritical or not, this isn't a moral issue and whether a new law benefits some of us or not it's ultimately a matter personal interest. If the law passes, great, if it doesn't my world isn't going to end and I will look elsewhere. I understand that some of you have been here from a very young age and even though you FEEL you are American, the fact of the matter is that your parents made a wrong decision in coming here and breaking the rules of the game, therefore blame it on them, not the law. What is pop and mom going to tell you when you complain about your situation? "We did this for you, but that's as far as we could carry you. You can now wait a long time, get married, or go back to <home country>. You are a grown up now, we can't even speak English, figure it out by yourself." (Essentially washing their hands off). Would you trade your parents for a green card? Would you marry someone to get your documents? You think you are an American after all, but no, you want to do things "the right way". LOL

All I know is that the birth law should be part of the new federal immigration bill. I don't care if your nation is messed up, breaking another nation's law is not an excuse and immigration as a natural phenomena isn't one either. Pretending you have gone through the whole legal process of becoming a resident and later a citizen, what would your opinion be about illegal immigrants living in your country while you struggled all these years to come to accomplish their same goal?

I am ashamed of my legal status because I know I am old enough to take responsibility of my own actions and I am now breaking the law. That's why if this law doesn't pass before the end of this presidential term I will leave the country. I am a hypocrite and ultimately selfish because this is my life, but who else in here really isn't? At least I am being honest and have no animosity toward those who want to fix their country's immigration system.

I'm not trolling... I think I made a pretty reasoned, on-topic, non-emotional argument. The point is that there is no precedent regarding the children of illegal immigrants. In the eyes of most Arizonans, birthright citizenship is not guaranteed by the Constitution -- it's has just been incorrectly assumed to extend from Ark. Therefore, whether it is a "federal question" is irrelevant to the constitutionality of the law... if something like this were appealed to the SC it would be a good opportunity to clarify what the law should be. From that quote I posted, I think its pretty clear the intent of the 14th Amendment was not to grant citizenship to children of foreigners in the US illegally.

now this is where you are wrong... things aren't so black and white as the law makes them to be. you talk the way you talk b/c you have the luxury to be able to do what you want to do. There's illegal immigration all over the world; including my own country, and you know that I welcome it because they are taking the place of the dead beat citizens that are there and want to be rich without working. To this day I've done my job and I've done it good. Many Americans and Mexicans have come to get my job and they couldn't. IF I or them won't do it; China will, as its starting to do with the whole world. Capitalism my friend has the ugly side too, deal with it.

A new law now allows immigration judges discretion on the immigrant's accomplishments thus far in the U.S... so they can add that as a factor in an applicant's process. That's good, we need people like that. It should be done legally, but the legal process is a complete b/s... why can't someone sponsor their gay lover? why can I sponsor a 85 yr old grandma who will come here and drain the hospitals?... why can I sponsor parents that I already chose to leave behind (don't we all leave our house one day"?... so cut me some slack and enough with this legal process you talking about, having gone through it; its messed up. Most of the people who have come legally that I know of, are draining the system and not using their SS# to pay their share of taxes.
we have more immigration lawyers than actual immigrants who work hand in hand with the brain dead know nothing court system who base their findings on the Department of State Website lmao. yes and my parents would gladly leave in order for me to get a green card...

this country is losing jobs due to the inability of them to compete with countries that speak 4 languages and don't require 2 coffee breaks every morning and who do not get paid more than a teacher to be able to put a car tire at GM. and the truth of the matter is, why would anyone possibly want any more immigrants coming in? why?.. they never have, because it undermines the natives; well unless you are a a business that thrives on allot of costumers.

this country was built on "legal' immigration? Capone came legally too and many other people who fucked this shyt up. this place was built on individuals with commitment and some brains, not on some luck.

laws are man made, if they wanted to fix the border, they should have done so. until then I welcome anyone who comes in... 8 yrs of republican administration and they've done nothing. now that Obama has increased deportations by 1/3 from the Bush era; no one is giving the guy some credit.

stop using the military mind of "we fight for our freedom" mentality like a bunch of puppets and look at things in the gray area. bottom line, if your here illegally, the weight is heavier on you to act right and not abuse the system. not be a baby machine and do something to better yourself with the options you do have.. so you can make us all that are on the same boat as you; better.

Bah, skilled, evil, apathetic legal immigrants, what difference does it make? USA stands as the bully of the world and you know what happens when it starts getting weary, they take whatever and whoever they need and there's always someone out there willing to take your place and it doesn't even matter whether that person comes from here or a nation far away.

Bipartisanship? Ha-ha-ha, we know it all comes down to corporate PACs, if both parties had wanted to they would have fixed the immigration problem like you mentioned, but they don't need to, so let's not fool ourselves. How long have people been doing all these marches and rallies just to try touching the legislators hearts? Like it has been said before, this isn't a moral issue, illegal immigration is an ever-growing problem and these people want to have better control of who gets to work for them, who comes in, and at the same time to satiate their people and prevent conflicts like the ones taking place in Arizona.

Things are really black and white when it comes to federal and international politics, it's either done or not done, and if you linger in between for too long you are just going to end up going with the majority. I respect this nation and its rules because although it is regarded as a draconian government by pretty much the rest of the world it still can support itself and people are still willing to come here illegally. Just wait for them to pull the next stunt and see how they rise from the ashes, whether it is a new war, planned financial collapse like multiple fat fingers, or multiple terr'ist attacks, the nation always comes out on top.

Immigration just like the oil spill are meaningless issues, that although sad, only serve as distractions from the real issues like what the US is actually doing overseas, typical of the American mainstream media. All I know is that if you live here legally or illegally you still are supposed to be a good sheeple and whatever comes out of the whole immigration issue you still have no say because of this:


It's unfair, but IT WORKS!

it'll all catch up to it don't worry... can't really hear it because this place houses 310 million people... there's allot of things that can keep the media busy. As far as anyone taking my place, eh.. they would rather send it to another country... and yes the protests never work, democracy my ass; money makes the world spin... its a way to keep its citizens feeling like they have a say/ power. there are people who will vote for IR out of the goodness of their heart; UNLESS there's some interests that get in the way. . .

aha i love that pic..

"And we're not being mean. We're just saying it takes more than walking across the border to become an American citizen,"

I suppose he worked hard to be born on US soil.

I think the fourteenth Amendment is fairly clear that people born in this country are citizens by birth alone. Here is the 14th Amendment in full:

Yeah, they are citizens because of the Constitution, a provision that can't be taken away unless the Constitution is amended again.

On the contrary, it is clearly unconstitutional: just because the Supreme Court has never ruled on an issue, doesn't mean it is constitutional. I highly doubt the Supreme Court has ruled on every article of the Constitution, and it plays no part in ratifying new parts of the Constitution if you read the full document. Moreover, if you look at the 14th Amendment, it clearly states that the states cannot "make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United State." Clearly this law would do that because by the 14th Amendment, people born in this country are citizens.

No, it is not. It is what makes the United States unique, because we are not a nation of one race or ethnicity, but a nation of immigrants and many ethnicities. The countries you cite as examples, particularly the European ones--who have citizenship based on ius sanguinis, "blood-right citizenship"--originally developed this idea of citizenship as a way of ensuring nation-states of primarily one nationality in the 19th century: all German by blood, all French by blood, etc. If this became the case in the United States, what race then becomes the primary, "citizen" race?

I don't see that statement in the 14th Amendment anywhere, but it is obviously intended to ensure that foreign diplomats do not get American citizenship. If the Amendment were only intended to ensure citizenship to freed slaves, it would have said nothing about birth but would have referenced freed slaves and their descendants specifically and explicitly, since that would be much clearer as to the real intent of the amendment.

It is unbelievable that people on here are actually making these cases, and it would not surprise me if Mynameisbob is one of the trolls we always see posting hateful stuff toward CIR advocates on every news article about immigration that gets any national prominence. If you guys keep making the case for xenophobes, pretty soon the new far-right cry will become, "No immigration reform till birth-right citizenship is expunged from the Constitution," just as conservatives now say the border must be secured before we can talk.

I congratulate you Jelly Beans... good job on your findings; i got lazy and didn't bother.