Centrist Dems urge Pelosi to break shutdown stalemate - Page 8
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Originally Posted by versailles
if you want to see a bootlicker look in the mirror. a self-confessed one too.
i'm just someone who studies and reads about politics a lot and know(more than you) what happens in situations like this. |
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Originally Posted by VJB2
lmao. You keep continuing to embarrass yourself even though this forum thinks you're a complete joke. Shut the fuck up and let the adults discuss.
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He makes jwxie518 look smart.
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Originally Posted by catportal
Not living in the past. It's called managing expectations. If Dems failed to deliver with a super majority, I don't know why anyone feels that they will be able to deliver now as a minority party without the express consent of the Republicans (Trump). No amount of political posturing, impeachment, or "3d chess move" outweighs these facts.
The reason Republicans aren't criticized for this issue is because they aren't the ones promising to fix it. They want to do nothing in the best case or deport in the worst case. People are elected based on the ideas they support. Why would we hold Republicans responsible for something they never promised? Obama promised to address CIR within the first year of his first term. DACA was a last ditch effort to win reelection in his 4th year of the first term. (Hillary countered 100 days fyi). Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF7SjTnMAQ4 |
Frankly, this is how it should always be as the bills with the most bipartisan support have a better chance at it lasting. Each party must look at how much they're willing to give.
For me, I see it like this:
If democrats accept anything temporary for dreamers in exchange for any republican priorities (especially the wall), it will look extremely weak. DACA protections is still in place and the bill released by the senate today actually makes DACA more restrictive. Therefore, the democrats (perhaps not even by choice) will seek something permanent. Frankly, this is true for any other issue as well. If you trade something you already have for something that's worse and your friends laugh at you, you shouldn't be surprised.
Could have dems pushed for the bill with their majority and lose political capitcal? Sure.
The other is to not look like an absolute fool, in front of democrats AND republicans. You can say democrats are fighting for dreamers to save face if you want but the result remains that democrats are fighting for it.
What motivates democrats certainly have changed in 2008 vs now for the dreamers. But the outcome (which is what dreamers care about) hasn't changed. Do you care if democrats legalized dreamers by gaining super majority and doing the "right" thing or if they legalized dreamers so they don't look stupid in front of their constituents and republicans? There are multiple ways to motivate democrats to fight for dreamers, you don't always have to depend on democrats doing the "right" thing.
Edit: Personally, I think it's the fact that they don't want to look like fools in front of the American people and being the laughing stock of the republican party. That is the motivation for democrats to fight for permanent relief. They are not as motivated as by "doing the right thing" as they did in 2008.
Last edited by cmeow; 01-22-2019 at 06:08 PM..
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Originally Posted by VJB2
lmao. You keep continuing to embarrass yourself even though this forum thinks you're a complete joke. Shut the fuck up and let the adults discuss.
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actual adults don’t have the temperament of a hormonal 17 y/o girl, though I’m sure you’d want to consider that a compliment.
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Originally Posted by cmeow
I agree with this assessment. The government now for any bill to pass must have the approval of the other party. Depending on what happens in 2020 election, 2021 will be the first chance that this changes.
Frankly, this is how it should always be as the bills with the most bipartisan support have a better chance at it lasting. Each party must look at how much they're willing to give. For me, I see it like this: If democrats accept anything temporary for dreamers in exchange for any republican priorities (especially the wall), it will look extremely weak. DACA protections is still in place and the bill released by the senate today actually makes DACA more restrictive. Therefore, the democrats (perhaps not even by choice) will seek something permanent. Frankly, this is true for any other issue as well. If you trade something you already have for something that's worse and your friends laugh at you, you shouldn't be surprised. Could have dems pushed for the bill with their majority and lose political capitcal? Sure. The other is to not look like an absolute fool, in front of democrats AND republicans. You can say democrats are fighting for dreamers to save face if you want but the result remains that democrats are fighting for it. What motivates democrats certainly have changed in 2008 vs now for the dreamers. But the outcome (which is what dreamers care about) hasn't changed. Do you care if democrats legalized dreamers by gaining super majority and doing the "right" thing or if they legalized dreamers so they don't look stupid in front of their constituents and republicans? There are multiple ways to motivate democrats to fight for dreamers, you don't always have to depend on democrats doing the "right" thing. Edit: Personally, I think it's the fact that they don't want to look like fools in front of the American people and being the laughing stock of the republican party. That is the motivation for democrats to fight for permanent relief. They are not as motivated as by "doing the right thing" as they did in 2008. |
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Originally Posted by versailles
in other words, you're basically saying "things not cooperating with my political affiliaton shouldn't be taken into consideration ever."
nice 1984 tactic. the sentiment of his post was to shed light on how the party has treated the issue. i think it's pretty relevant. |
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Lmao.
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Originally Posted by BestBefore1984
What's my political affiliation?
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initial DACA: 6/20122nd renewal: 9/2014
3rd renewal: 11/2016
4th renewal: 11/2018
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Originally Posted by BestBefore1984
What's my political affiliation?
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