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DAP Forums > DREAM Act > The Lounge

I do not support this version of Immigration Reform - Page 5

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#41
06-22-2013, 12:32 PM
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What are the chances of this bill passing? I just hate seeing threads like these supporting/against a bill that NEVER pass...I get all excited and then nothing happens. But if this kind of stuff is not talked about then what's the use of forums like this...
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#42
06-22-2013, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafiv View Post
What are the chances of this bill passing? I just hate seeing threads like these supporting/against a bill that NEVER pass...I get all excited and then nothing happens. But if this kind of stuff is not talked about then what's the use of forums like this...
Just get use to disappointment. I didn't have faith in the last immigration bill and neither the dream acts. If you expect too much you will disappointed. The best thing to do is to really forget about the immigration talk and focus on what you're doing right now. Trust me if you just wait for it not worrying about it time passes quick.
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Tranny is not derogatory term dummy
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#43
06-22-2013, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxOnWaxOFF View Post
I just wanted to say that I do not support this version of immigration reform. Its crude, harsh, militaristic and oozes racism.

I am a dreamer and I know I should be happy because they always give us over the shoulder winks like "hey immigrants suck but you guys are okay". And I have read the bill and know that they are special provisions in there for ppl like myself but I just cannot support it.

My fundamental problem is that noone is acknowledging the tremendous postive that immigrants specifically undocumented immigrants have been for this country economically and socially. It makes me sick the bill is so burdensome, 13yrs is a long time and untop of that they are placing an entire army on the southern border as if to prevent the next round of refugees from coming in. Most undocumented immigrants have done right by this country and have by any objective standard earned the right not to be deported willy-nilly. The country seems to forget that they are indeed a true nation of immigrants and fail to extend that courtesy to others in search of better futures. Beyond that this bill punishes those that have come here becuase of America's promise.

I think this bill is about punishing those who have come here illegally and I think the punishment is disproportionate and racist. I am not against all this 'border soverignty talk' but acknowledge that we have contributed greatly to the greatness of this country and treat us with the respect we have earned.

I have kids and I would hope if my kids were in a position of voting up or down on a bill like the one proposed they would vote down.

Whatever man, if everyone tells me to shut my face, am good. Let them pass it. But its a horrible bill, that creates second class citizens and marginalizes us. I want there to be a record that I do not support this piece of shit bill and I think Republicans are racist. At least its the one of the two party's where racists go and chill and meet other racists. And Marco Rubio is no more an immigrant than I am a citizen, what a joke. Being an immigrant is a little more involved than being hispanic, its a family, a mentality, a way of caring for others that Republicans can never understand, not even Marco Rubio.

Am going to stop talking before they tap my computer but yea, I do not want the bill to die because so many ppl are depending on it but I wish we could have done better.
How is it racist? Illegal immigrants can be from Sweden as far as we're concerned. I think the bill is actually too generous. You have to understand that citizenship is no longer a right, it is a privilege. And a very tough privilege to earn, too. So you can manifest your discontent by simply not applying.
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#44
06-23-2013, 03:35 AM
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I fully support this bill. For one major reason. Jobs. Think of all the job opportunities that are going to rise the minute this bill becomes law. I'm too lazy to list the jobs lol but think about it, 11-12 million undocumented immigrants give or take a couple million know perfect english but what about the rest? isn't one ofthe requirements to know english? man the smart thing to do would get your self a certificate to teach English as a second language or something along those lines. that's just one example. You have to think on the positive side. That is all....lol.
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#45
06-23-2013, 03:49 AM
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This bill is not fair, it is fundamentally racist. What it does is assume that most undocumented workers come from southern border and then propose a solution to deal with that problem. So 40% of illegal immigrants are visa overstays but 85% of the solutions to illegal immigration proposed in the bill deal with the southern border of the USA.

I mean they are stopping a millimeter short of shooting anyone that approaches the USA from the southern border. It is insane to think that what it takes to get votes on a matter that is at its core a humanitarian issue is to promise to keep everyone coming from the Southern border out. No one is discussing our northern neighbors at all. Maybe because they are not considered poor, uneducated and look the same as the politicians that run this place. And it helps that everyone thinks they speak English even though there are large French-speaking territories in Canada.

And no, undocumented workers pay all their taxes, most of us work twice as hard for half the pay to make this country as awesome at it is for all the USC that are trying to seal the southern border. All the downsides to illegal immigration are either unique situations or out right lies. We deserve better, we might not get better from them but it is necessary that we know that our collective sweat is worth more than second class citizenship.

Everyone has their reason for staying in this country. I do not agree with the notion that illegal immigration as had such a detrimental effect, economically or politically that it warrants building a 700 mile fence, hiring military, punishing hard working people for the better part of 2 decades by making prove that they are 'perfect' Americans, and just being plain disrespectful about the whole subject matter. That is not a measured response to a problem that has fueled your cheap food, grain, housing boom, manufacturing, labor system for 2 decades.

We have racists people/organizations masquerading as immigration opponents and no one is calling them out on it cause we all know that being illegal takes away their 'God given' rights. So sure, Ann Coulter, Bill O' Reilly, Lou, Tea partiers, say what ever you want and if you are not happy we'll just keep adding punishments to the bill. How does a 20 yr wait sound? Sounds fair for working hard, contributing and arising good God fearing children.

I am not an hero, I will not deprive my kids to make a point about this bill. I will teach them the difference between right and wrong. I will let them know the huge contributions that our community as made to this country and its citizens. I am in no way suggesting that anyone boycott this piece of legislation and not apply to prove a point. Apply and get your work permit but know that you deserve more than that. Its all I am saying.

I know the collective mindset seems to be 'be grateful you are getting anything at all'. I am grateful for the sacrifices that got me this far. Don't get that twisted. I am not upset, just disappointed. I really believed in this country but when it came time to step up and live by what they taught me, they failed. And it sucks that they did.
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#46
06-23-2013, 03:52 AM
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That was a long response, my bad. I aint realize, on the quick response thing, you cannot see the whole post. Plus, I had to defend my opposition to the bill. I am going to fall back now.
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#47
06-23-2013, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxOnWaxOFF View Post
This bill is not fair, it is fundamentally racist. What it does is assume that most undocumented workers come from southern border and then propose a solution to deal with that problem. So 40% of illegal immigrants are visa overstays but 85% of the solutions to illegal immigration proposed in the bill deal with the southern border of the USA.

I mean they are stopping a millimeter short of shooting anyone that approaches the USA from the southern border. It is insane to think that what it takes to get votes on a matter that is at its core a humanitarian issue is to promise to keep everyone coming from the Southern border out. No one is discussing our northern neighbors at all. Maybe because they are not considered poor, uneducated and look the same as the politicians that run this place. And it helps that everyone thinks they speak English even though there are large French-speaking territories in Canada.

And no, undocumented workers pay all their taxes, most of us work twice as hard for half the pay to make this country as awesome at it is for all the USC that are trying to seal the southern border. All the downsides to illegal immigration are either unique situations or out right lies. We deserve better, we might not get better from them but it is necessary that we know that our collective sweat is worth more than second class citizenship.

Everyone has their reason for staying in this country. I do not agree with the notion that illegal immigration as had such a detrimental effect, economically or politically that it warrants building a 700 mile fence, hiring military, punishing hard working people for the better part of 2 decades by making prove that they are 'perfect' Americans, and just being plain disrespectful about the whole subject matter. That is not a measured response to a problem that has fueled your cheap food, grain, housing boom, manufacturing, labor system for 2 decades.

We have racists people/organizations masquerading as immigration opponents and no one is calling them out on it cause we all know that being illegal takes away their 'God given' rights. So sure, Ann Coulter, Bill O' Reilly, Lou, Tea partiers, say what ever you want and if you are not happy we'll just keep adding punishments to the bill. How does a 20 yr wait sound? Sounds fair for working hard, contributing and arising good God fearing children.

I am not an hero, I will not deprive my kids to make a point about this bill. I will teach them the difference between right and wrong. I will let them know the huge contributions that our community as made to this country and its citizens. I am in no way suggesting that anyone boycott this piece of legislation and not apply to prove a point. Apply and get your work permit but know that you deserve more than that. Its all I am saying.

I know the collective mindset seems to be 'be grateful you are getting anything at all'. I am grateful for the sacrifices that got me this far. Don't get that twisted. I am not upset, just disappointed. I really believed in this country but when it came time to step up and live by what they taught me, they failed. And it sucks that they did.
We don't deserve shit and you need to understand this. We entered, entered, and at some point, we all turned legal age and could have done the right thing. The fair thing to do. But no, we didn't, we choose to remain here knowing how life was. We managed to blend perfectly and that we thought we were part of this country but the sad reality is we knew we didn't really belong. Though by heart his is our one and true home, the sad reality is, its really not. We may tell ourselves this is our home and only place we know but its really really not. And just like those 11 million people who were deported, it could have been us, then what? All that patriotic wouldn't have mattered one bit.

You think too much of yourself, as you believe this country owns you for you being here with out authorization.

Your argument is really weak. "we deserve something better because we pay taxes and are good "citizens!" that is NOT enough. Are you still forgetting once we became 18, we had the choice to leave this country and enter here the "right" way?

Say you entered someone's house, you were allowed to stay there for a few weeks but somehow managed to stay there longer. You live there for years then suddenly the family decides to include you but put you on the guest room. This isnt enough for you, you demand to be given a room in the same floor as everyone else. You argue that you clean their lawns, you wash their dishes, you contribute and for X years you have blended so well, you taught you were part of them.

You know how they would destroyed your argument? "well thanks for letting us know but for X years you were living here with out our approval, you entered our house and overstayed your welcome. Yes you cleaned the dishes and mowed the lawn, we noticed, but doing so was the least you could have done to somehow compensate for staying here, we didn't ask you to do those things for us and you know why? Because you weren't suppose to be here in the first place. And now you want us to reward for you for your trespassing and overstaying your welcome? . We tried to find you and kick you out but you did so good at saying hidden. We knew you were here and believe me we tried to get you out. So now that we are considered allowing you to stay here lawfully you say its unfair that we are putting you in the guest room for now?"


you see how silly this sounds? I know its ridiculous were you stand. As someone else said, its really generous of what they are giving us because no other country would even consider talking about passing a reform to fix their immigration problem. The reality is, they don't have to pass this reform and the people opposing it are in their right to oppose it. its their country, not ours. You may have grown to believe this was your country but its not, its really not. And you should have gotten a hint when they took away licenses and made it difficult to live here with out authorization. But you didn't, you picked to believe this country was yours, it was truly yours and you deserved to be treated as a citizen.

When reality checks in with you, you reinitialize youre though process of believing this country was yours and you belonged here trying to fight back the reality. You say to yourself, "but why am I being given this? I paid my taxes, I finished school, I never got into trouble, I go to church, I help my community" but you forget one thing, you forget the principle. You did this with out being asked and you weren't asked because this country never considered you to be part of it. It pretended to want you but it never really did.

When you turned 18, you had the option to leave this country, "you know what, I see this country is not really my home... I can see I don't belong here, maybe I will try my luck somewhere else.. maybe back home" but you didn't do that. You told yourself, "NO!! I been here for 10 years!! I deserved to be treated equally!!! I am part of this country!! sure I don't have any kind of status but Hey I've contribute a lot to this country!!"


It is unfair and everything you have said, but what better choice do you have? are you REALLY going to protest against it? Whats the alternative?
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I personally knew that if he wins he's not going to be touching DACA.
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I hope Trump wins second term.
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Originally Posted by BestBefore1984 View Post
Tranny is not derogatory term dummy
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#48
06-23-2013, 06:17 AM
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wax should just go back from where you came from. seems you hate america. it's ppl like you that give us a bad rep. you dont deserve shit. be grateful you may potentially be given something.
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#49
06-23-2013, 11:36 AM
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Again I disagree. When they took over this piece of land, they made most of the arguments that you are telling me are not valid. When the civil war was fought, these same arguments were made and they resonated. People gave their lives all through the history of this country in favor of the arguments that you are discounting as entitled ranting.

Your arguments are the same ones they made to oppress minority, to deny women full rights. Its a mentality that says be thankful you are getting even this. Well, fine, but its not right for you to defend them though. They are in the wrong, when they were us, which was not too long ago, they died in opposition to the same laws you are telling me to just accept. 'No taxation without representation' etc.

So you are telling me that it is cool for them to accommodate themselves using arguments based on freedom and meritocracy but we better not touch those? Its crazy that the rules change once they are no longer the oppressed minority. All of a sudden, 'God given rights' turn to 'Government granted permission'. I am only making the arguments they have taught me to make. Based on what they profess to believe.

Fine, no other country in the world would be as accommodating of me as this country has but this country was meant to be different, it was meant to be a strict meritocracy. Man works, he/she is rewarded. This bill is a failure to live up to the lofty standards they like to believe this country was founded on.

I love this country not because of its name or it reputation but because of its ideals. And I think it is important to point out when it has failed, and not simply excuse by saying 'well, we came in illegally so its cool that they treat us like shit. In fact we sort of kind of deserve it'. If when they were getting treated like shit, the bent over and took it, I would agree. But they fought like heck to get some rights they thought they have earned and now just 200yrs later they don't recognize that they are being the oppressors. Economically, socially illegal immigration has earned the right just like they did. That is a valid argument in my view because every person in this country owes their freedom to that same argument.
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#50
06-23-2013, 11:46 AM
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When the emancipation proclamation was written and signed there were people back then arguing that it did not go far enough to solve the problem. Turns out they were right. It took another 100yrs before the civil rights act of 1964 came and fully put an end to institutional discrimination. That is my argument now, that this piece of legislation does not go far enough. But it might be up to another generation to fight but at least we should know that there is more to fight for.
Last edited by WaxOnWaxOFF; 06-23-2013 at 11:47 AM.. Reason: jus cause
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